I am a big-time David Lynch nut. I remember having to steal a copy of Blue Velvet and watch it at a friend’s house because my parents thought it was too sketchy for me to see at 12. I watched each episode of Twin Peaks the night...
I am a big-time David Lynch nut. I remember having to steal a copy ofBlue Velvetand watch it at a friendâs house because my parents thought it was too sketchy for me to see at 12. I watched each episode ofTwin Peaksthe night that it originally aired. I sawWild at HeartandFire Walk With Meon their opening days. For my money, this guy has made some of the most original, thrilling, deep, and beautiful cinema ever, ever, ever.
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So just because you care, here are my favorite David Lynch things in descending order from the best on down to the simply very great:âą The episodes ofTwin Peaks that he directedâąBlue VelvetâąInland EmpireâąMulholland DriveâąWild at Heart(this was at the top of the list when I was 15)âąFire Walk With MeâąThe Elephant ManâąEraserheadâąDuneâąHis early shortsâąCatching the Big FishI didnât likeLost Highway, but letâs not bother getting into that.Now hereâs the tricky part. David Lynch and I both practice this thing called Transcendental Meditation, which was invented by a guy named Maharishi Mahesh Yogi back in the 1950s. The Beatles did it; Howard Stern and Jerry Seinfeld do it too. Weird collection of people right there. I interviewed Lynch forVicea few years ago, and we talked only about TM at that time. I figured that this time around we would talk about TM and more stuff, broader stuff, life and movie stuff. And we did, sort of. But you also have to realize that for Lynch, the tenets of TM are of the utmost importance. His whole life is inextricably linked to it. No matter what you ask him, he is likely to link it back to meditation. So, after we were done talking this time around and I listened to the tape, I thought, hmm, we really did talk about TM a lot here. Maybe itâs weird to put all this TM talk into the magazine. Maybe it feels like a commercial for my and his brand of spirituality. Maybe I shouldnât do this.
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But then I realized: Iâm the editor of this magazine and the rest of you arenât. So fuck yâall if you donât want to hear about it. Hereâs me and Lynch talking about meditation, the unified field, total enlightenment, and cheese.Vice: Hello, Mr. Lynch. I donât know if you remember, but I interviewed you a few years ago. We spoke mainly about Transcendental Meditation that time.David Lynch:Iâll be darned.Iâm a practitioner as well, since I was a little kid.Fantastic, Jesse!I want to touch on TM this time as well but also go a little broader later on. I know that meditation is very important to you in terms of your creative process. I often find myself wanting to interrupt meditations to jot down ideas. Does this happen to you too?Well, you know, the Beatles asked Maharishi the same question when they were with him in Rishikesh in â68. Theyâd get ideas in meditation too. He said, âCome out, write it down, and then go back to meditating.âWow. Iâll do that from now on.See, the idea is very clear down there, and so itâs really thrilling when it comes. But if you wait till after you finish to jot it down, chances are that youâll forget it.Thatâs happened to me a lot. Is it the same for you?If Iâve really got a hot one, I come out and write it down, and then I go right back in.Now that I think about it, if Iâm interrupted I sometimes find it easier to go right back into a deep meditation as opposed to a shallower one.
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I know what you mean, but a lot of times âshallowâ and âdeepâ are sort of subjective things. If you saw yourself on an EEG machine, you might be surprised at how many times you were transcending during a meditation.I guess it goes in peaks and valleys.You dip in and dip out. Maybe you go in there and you didnât really get zapped, but youâve still touched it many times, meaning the transcendent, which is the deepest level. You experience that many times in each meditation.Just for different lengths of time.Yeah.That makes sense. It sounds familiar to me. I think I was around seven years old when I first started having experiences in meditation that felt transcendent to me.[laughs] Thatâs fantastic.It was pretty funny. My grandparents and my friends thought I was in a cult.Now, just for your readers, Transcendental Meditation is not a religion, not a cult, not a sect⊠Itâs a mental techniqueâan ancient form of meditationâthat unlocks the human beingâs full potential. And the full potential of a human being is called enlightenment. Itâs really pretty foolishnotto meditate.Our readers might start to tune us out now if they arenât open to hearing about this stuff, but oh well. So yes, itâs true for me tooânot meditating is sort of a waste of oneâs own capabilities.Yeah! Youâve got this potential, but youâre not going to get it unless you experience transcendenceâthat deepest level. Pure consciousness. And every time you experience the transcendent, you infuse some of it and you grow in that consciousness. You grow in intelligence, creativity, happiness, love, energy, and peace.
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All good stuff, basically.And the side effect is that negativity starts to lift away. Itâs a win-win-win situation.You donât have to tell me.I know, but we have to tell your readers. [laughs] People get it at different times, and youâve got to want it to do it. And hearing these things might make some people out there say, âMan, I gotta have that!â That happensâmore and more these days.If the reader comments on our website from the last time I talked to you about this stuff are any indication, weâre going to get slammed. Anyway, based on what Iâve read about your working process, ideas might come to you and then not get used for years and years.Sometimes, yeah.Whatâs your method for keeping track of ideas?I write them on little pieces of paper and then I drop those in a box. So I have, like, an idea box. And then I sometimes go through there, and one idea is suddenly like a little jewel. And so Iâll start to think about it, and you know what they say: âWhere the attention is, that becomes lively.âRight.Focused attention has a magic quality. The idea does become lively, and it can make other ideas swim in, like little fish, and join it. And then a whole thing starts to emerge.Is there also an element of the idea having a different context just because, say, five yearsâwith all the changes that can happen in that amount of timeâhave gone by? Something that was mysterious to you when it popped into your head could be clear as day five years later.
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Yeah! Itâs like all ideas have a time for being. And for some reason, at some specific time, youâll read an old idea and it just makes you crazy because you love it so much.Do you ever go back and watch your old films?Sometimes. My son Riley hadnât seen them before, so I saw them all with him recently. Itâs the same way with my older paintingsâitâs sometimes good to go back and look at your old stuff. Itâs just like the idea box. You might see something that you did way back when, and some part of that can feed into the work youâre doing right now and jump-start it.What do you call the place where ideas originate? The subconscious?No. Everythingâeverythingâoriginates in the unified field. Itâs an ocean of pure consciousness. Itâs the transcendent. And thatâs what quantum physics says now: Everything that is a thing has emerged from that field. New things are always emerging and bubbling up from it. So an idea will come, but you will not know the idea until it enters your conscious mind. Now, if you expand your consciousness you can catch ideas at deeper and deeper levels, and theyâll have more information and more energy.Itâs pretty intense.Plus, as you understand things more, thereâs more to understand!Thatâs true. Itâs almost kind of scary.Everybody relies on ideas.Your more recent work, specifically Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire, sort of has the rhythm of meditation to me. We drift, find focus, drift, and find focus. Is there anything to that, or am I reaching?
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Well, I always say that those two films, like any other film, are based on ideas. Iâm not trying to duplicate a meditation experience. Iâm trying to translate ideas that came to me, to make them feel, in cinema, the way they did when they came to my mind. Itâs all based on the ideas that come.Sure, without the idea thereâs nothing.Exactly right.Why do you think so many people have such a desire to know the meaning of your films?I always say the same thingâweâre like detectives. Films are another world, with new characters and new situations. When things are concrete in films, you donât have a problem understanding them. When they get abstract, then the understanding varies and people come up with different interpretations based on whatâs inside of themselves. When you look at life, weâre always looking at stuff and wondering and thinking about this and thatâtrying to suss out whatâs going on, just like weâre watching a film.Just walking down any street could lead to a thousand different mysteries.Ex-actly.But even with all of that said, donât you get tired of people asking you what things in your work mean?But I donât ever say what they mean. I say, âYou know, for yourself, what it means. And thatâs valid.âYour films can be very scary. I know people who canât even watch the first Winkieâs scene in Mulholland Drive. What do you think an audience might get out of being so freaked out by a movie? I know that there is something valuable for me in it, but I canât put my finger on what it is.
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Well, I know that the images can be fearful, but those are just the ideas that came. Or they camewiththat fear. But thereâs nothing really scary there. Itâs just the way the scene goes, and the words that are said, and the way the expressions look, and the way the camera moves, and the way the sound is designed. It all conjures up a thing that makes people say âWhoaââjust like I said âWhoaâ when I got the idea. And of course ideas can come up and conjure beautiful images too.Of course.Thank goodness for the ideas, because they tell you how to go. Intuition tells you how to go. Intuition is the number-one tool for the artist.Without that intuition, you canât make art.You canât just read a book and become a painter or a filmmaker. Thereâs some other abstract quality that has to be there too. And thatâs called intuition. Number-one tool!Going back to this fear thing for a second⊠You make it sound so simple, but a scary scene in one of your movies is way more than just the sum of its parts. Maybe you can tell me something that scares you.Iâm not any different from anybody else. The fear of death is the biggest fear. Everything else kind of falls away from that.Are there specific ways that youâre afraid youâre going to die?[laughs] Itâs like, you donât want to sit around and start thinking about that. But sometimes ideas come that involve death and fearâfear of the unknownâand not knowing where this path is leading.
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Maybe part of the enjoyment in watching really scary stuff is that itâs a safe way of experiencing that fear of death on a tiny scale.See, thatâs the number-one key. I always say, âHave the suffering on the screen. Not in your life.â The artist doesnât have to suffer to show suffering. I could be a happy, happy camper shooting a death scene because it will have nothing to do with whatâs inside me. Iâll just be translating ideas. And people can have a scary experience in the theater, and then leave it and go into a world thatâs really a good world. Although a lot of times these days, people leave the theater and go into a world thatâs far worse than the horrific things theyâre seeing on the screen.Thatâs interesting, because a thing that gets said about you and your work a lotâespecially since youâve started talking so much in the press about meditationâis this question: âIf this guy is so into the pursuit of bliss and enlightenment, why are his films so dark?â I think thatâs kind of a dumb way to look at it.But it is a legitimate question.I think what you say about putting suffering on the screen rather than in your life pretty much answers it. What would you say to my friend who is too much of a wimp to finish that Winkieâs scene?A film is like reading a book. You can read a book, and it can be a really frightening, horrendous story, and you can be really gripped by it. But you can stop reading at any moment and go get a cup of coffee and sit outside or whatever, you know? You choose to go into the world of that book.
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Cinema can be much more immersive than a book, though.But books are great too.Oh sure, of course. Now, you might think this is goofy, but Iâve always wanted to ask you if you believe in the supernatural to any degree.Well, this makes me think of my friend John Hagelin, who is one of the worldâs greatest quantum physicists. We know now that there are ten dimensions of space and one dimension of time. There are worlds upon worlds upon worlds, and there are all kinds of things going on. But a person can get lost in thereâfor a long time. You want to go beyond all that and experience the transcendent. Thatâs where all the power is that runs the whole universe and universes. Like Maharishi says, âCapture the fort first and then all the territories are yours.âThatâs a good analogy. You mentioned beauty a minute ago. Whatâs a beautiful image youâve seen in real life recently?Pretty much everything! Hereâs another expression, and this one is Vedic: âThe world is as you are.â Itâs a secret. The world is as you are. If you want to see a better and better world, start expanding your consciousness. All of itâs there inside every human being. The world starts looking brighter and more beautiful and people start looking more familiar and beautiful too. Everything starts getting really, really beautiful! An analogy is that if youâre wearing filthy dark green glasses, then thatâs the world you see. But if you start cleaning those, and pumping in rose and gold, then
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thatis the world you see.I think that a lot of people fear that adjusting their attitude will take more sheer willpower than it actually does.This is a natural process. Itâs not about trying. In TM, the word âtryingâ doesnât exist. Itâs effortlessâeasy. A ten-year-old child can do it.I was just looking at your photo series of female nudes draped in smoke. That got me thinking about your female characters and how they are usually mysterious and dangerous, or at least the keepers of big secrets. Do you think that men are capable of really understanding women?Weâre capable of understanding totality. But most of us donât understand women. [laughs] And they donât understand us. Itâs kind of an interesting thing. They are mysterious, and they are extremely beautiful. You could take photographs of women till the cows come home, and youâll always find something new.It really never gets old.Itâs just magic.So you think that women donât understand men either?Yeah. We donât understand one another, really, but you get more understanding when you start expanding your consciousness. Enlightenment is infinite understanding!Maybe some people have a different idea of what âunderstandingâ means. To me itâs not about solving everything like a math problem. Itâs more about learning to coexist with whatever needs to be understood, and to sort of embody it, maybe.Itâs knowingness.Right. But it isnât about trying to reach the end of an equation.
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Well, thereâs objective science and thereâs subjective science. And now the two are coming together. In other words, intellectual understanding alone will never get you there. It needs to be intellectual understanding coupled with the experience. The experience is whatâs missing in life.There are rumors going around that youâre done with narrative feature filmmaking.No, no, no. [laughs] Iâm done withcelluloid. Even though itâs so beautiful, itâs going to be a digital world that Iâll work in from now on.Are you working on a feature now?No, Iâm going to do a documentary on Maharishi and then I donât know what Iâll do after that.We have an interview in this issue with Werner Herzog and he told us that you and he have talked about making good films for less money than the usual Hollywood budget. Do you feel like thereâs overspending and bloat in the film industry?For sure. It still takes money to do things, but it doesnât take ridiculous money. I always say that filmmaking is about the size of the corral they put you in. If youâre in a little corral and youâve got like one million or half a million dollars, youâre going to think of ways to do it for that much money. And thatâs really beautiful. In a 100-million-dollar corral, youâre not even going to think that much. Youâre just going to be able to throw money at stuff.Do you shoot with your digital camera just for the hell of it, even when thereâs not a specific project going on?
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No, I donât really like doing that. I guess if I had a Flip cam I might do more of that, but I like to have an idea and then try to realize that ideaânot just go around willy-nilly.Like the way that you worked on Inland Empire, where you shot a scene here and a scene there over the course of a couple of years.I didnât say, âI want to do a film thatâs going to take a long time.â Thatâs just how it happened. You can go a long time without an idea, and then they start flooding in.Iâm going to shift gears a little bit here. I asked a friend of mine who knows you what I should ask you about, and he said to ask you about cheese. Was he messing with me?Well, I like to eat cheese. And I sometimes like to think of cheese.In what way?How it came to be. The magic thing is that thereâs just, you know, a cow. And then thereâs the grass and the sunlight, and then here comes the cheese.Itâs true.Itâs kind of amazing.Thinking about you and cheese reminded me of that extra on the Inland Empire DVD where you show us how you make quinoa. That made me wonder about what you like to eat for breakfast.I donât eat breakfast. I like to have cappuccinos instead.You drink a lot of caffeine.Yes.Iâve read that itâs upward of 15 cups a day.Sometimes, yeah. Maybe thatâs on average.Iâm sure you get asked this all the time, but do you think about the health implications of all the caffeine and all the smoking that you do?
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Youâve got to just live your life. And these daysâbecause of some people in San Franciscoâeveryoneâs really started going against smoking.You canât smoke anywhere now.Well, you still can in LA. Itâs so beautiful because there are outdoor restaurants here. So there are plenty of places you can smoke. But cars are everywhere, see? I think that anybody would say that theyâd rather smoke a cigarette than stand behind a carâs exhaust pipe for the amount of time it takes to smoke. Cars pollute way more than cigarettes do.I guess that the antismoking activists are more concerned about getting cancer from secondhand smoke, which I think is kind of ridiculous when itâs applied to public places.If you were in a cabin all winter with a smoker and you were a nonsmoker, I could see there being something to that. But nowadays if you light a cigarette 50 feet away from someone in a park, they freak out.Smokers are becoming pariahs.I know itâs not healthy, but Iâve loved tobacco since I was very little.How old were you when you started smoking?I guess I was five or seven the first time I tried a cigarette.Wow. So thatâs just like the behind-the-woodshed, sneaking-one-to-see-whatâs-it-like sort of smoking?Right.Are you the kind of guy whoâs going to just keep smoking as long as he can?I donât know. I could just get a big urge to quit one day. But right now, Iâm enjoying it and enjoying life.
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