WE NEVER LEARN: BILLY CHILDISH

It's time for part two of our three part We Never Learn series. Last week we featured outtakes from an interview with Mummies frontman Trent Ruane, and today we've got poet, author, artist, and musician, Billy Childish. Billy's been in so many bands it's hard to keep track of…Thee Mighty Caesars, Thee Headcoats, Delmonas, Milkshakes, Pop Rivets, Buff Medways and about a dozen others. He's a national treasure in Britain and his story is a book unto itself. A lot of the good stuff from the two-hour plus interview was excised from We Never Learn because it was completely outside the scope of the book's subject matter--but it was hilarious and entertaining nonetheless.

Considering the few bands who've come out of this primordial garage rock soup to achieve a modicum of aboveground success have done so by aping his sound in whole or in part he had quite a lot to say. Here's some of it.

Eric Davidson: What exactly happened with Jack White in the first place? Was it normal magazine article shit, and he took offense? Billy Childish: Yeah. GQ in America did a big article on me. They asked to speak to Jack too, but Jack refused. So they decided to get him, I think. So they asked me what I thought about the White Stripes, and like an idiot I said, "Well it doesn't seem so charismatic." And I don't think it is. I think there's a big problem because they want people to think that there is some kind of similarity between us. But there isn't. We're trying to close 15 yards between the audience and us--and the White Stripes want that 15 yards. They are heading for the stadiums with all their might. They say they aren't with their sound, but they are. So it will be very difficult for them to achieve what they want to achieve because their ambition is going to be in the way. And Jack got very upset with me and wrote this thing about me on the internet saying that I was a plagiarist, and that you can't just take a blues song and change the lyrics. They also said they felt sorry for me because I was a bitter garage rocker. That was in the NME and Melody Maker. I wrote a reply for the press and sent it to them saying that I undoubtedly angered Jack because his former admiration for me wasn't reciprocated. I thought it was unfair, and I said it smacks of jealousy to me. I have fully blistering guitar sounds and a developed sense of humor. I said I follow stringent music industry standards and only plagiarize 50% of my music, haha. When that was published, I e-mailed Jack immediately afterward and said, "Jack I am sorry if you are offended by anything I said. This is just stuff people write down in the press and it's nothing personal. It's just I'm not really into the music." And you know, he didn't reply to that. Also, you need to put in the fact that if I was Jack, I would think, "Two million people know who I am, and no one knows who you are." Isn't two million enough?! Why do I have to like it as well?

Well, obviously he respects you… But no matter what, I would never fall to the depths of ripping off Led Zeppelin. I don't think Jack thought that was funny. Someone did a boxing poster: "Wimpy Jack White vs. Bitter Billy Childish!" And he had that banned from eBay!

So, is there anything you want to share about your experience with Crypt or dealing with Tim Warren? I know you're still friendly… Yeah, I am friendly with Tim. When you talk to him, Tim doesn't listen to what you say, he just shouts. I'm fine with Micha (Warren's ex-wife), after she realizes she doesn't have to shout at me. Tim is just a fucking artwork. I mean I like Tim, and we used to have a bit of a laugh. He got us to record a few of his groups when we went out to that Bad Music Seminar. Guys like the Rat Bastards and a lot of those groups, because he wanted people who knew the sound and wouldn't fuck around, and could knock it out in a couple of hours. So he got me to do some producing for him. And that was all OK.

Is that still how you record: band in one place, vocals in another? No. We've always done a bit of everything. We used to record at Toe Rag [famed 90s garage rock studio in London] in the old days when we started. But then the White Stripes started to use it, so they brought the prices up and we couldn't afford it. We also have a friend who has a full valve studio that's really good. And then we have a friend with a digital studio, but he uses bits of old tape from an old R&B group that used to play there in the 70s…so we can get a decent sound down there. You can get decent sound as long as you get some tape and some valve between you. You can even use digital gear, but it just means you've got to have a lot more discipline. There is no hard fast rule on how we record.

Just not hard and fast, right? Are the Buff Medway's still together? No, we've done a few albums since then, but now we're the Musicians of the British Empire. We just did a new album called Fascist Children. It goes: "Fascist children have inherited the earth. Ronald Reagan was there, he gave the curse. Fascist little children, what are you supposed to do when every little smile has to shine brand new? Fascist children they came from long and far, and now even rock'n'roll is just flugging a car. Fascist children holding tight to the purse. It ain't getting better, it's just getting worse. My mobile is ringing, the ice is getting thin. A terrorist might get you, the tunnel is caving in. The countdown is beginning, the winner can't win. Save your own skin, everyone is a loser. As fascist children you said it was punk rock, and now we are on our knees sucking cock. Fascist children believe it's true, but what she did to them, she will do it to you. Fascist children the headlines will grab you. Yank out your arms or children might stab you. Fascist children you said it would be fun, but now you are staring down the barrel of your own gun. Fascist children what can you lose, when you can all be famous on YouTube? Fascist children are you glad she came preaching a gospel of greed and gain? Fascist children, why don't you give me a smile for the CTV cameras for mile after mile after mile."

Oh yeah. Going back to those Clash covers you did. I was at this music convention Q&A thing recently with [Clash bassist] Paul Simmonon's wife—who's the main person who pimps the Clash's songs now. It was really weird. People were asking her how she decided to put those songs in TV commercials, and the answers were so ridiculous, as far as how she chooses which song goes in what commercial. Like, what car company is good and which one isn't. It was very weird. Well I guess the best thing to do as far as putting your song in a car commercial is to go for the highest payer into your account.

Exactly. Just say that! Because we know that's what you mean. She said they pick companies that they think Joe Strummer would have been OK with or something. Like Land Rover?

Haha, Yeah, the New Bomb Turks only do Rolls Royce. Maybe Bentley. We haven't had to deal with those situations because we're still not quite at the point where we can sell cars. There's actually a local group who does pop versions of our stuff called the Len Price Three. They take old Headcoats and Caesar songs and put a pop edge to them. It's pretty funny, but it's irritating because they do pop versions of our songs and then they get the money—but we can't get the money. It's amazing. Jello Biafra [Dead Kennedys' singer] was complaining to me years ago that the rest of the group was trying to sue him because he wouldn't let Levi's use one of their songs. I asked him, "How much are they offering you?" He said $70,000 and I said "Yeah, that's not really enough now, is it? If you're going to sell out, it better be for more than that!" I mean, I do feel selling out is irritating. I find it odd when groups who are already wealthy let people use their music for advertising, because when you're already wealthy, that's when you don't have to sell out. Like, if I gave my song to Toyota, maybe I can be forgiven because I have never made money, and I'm not going to be asked to be in the Music Hall of Fame. No one is looking out for me. Nirvana never copied any of my songs. None of these people who are fans ever covered a song of mine.

A lot of people over here say that's the only way bands can make a living now. No one buys CDs. Fans yank tunes off of the internet for free. New music isn't going to get played on American radio because American commercial radio is just putrid. You might make some money from touring, maybe. So bands think the only way they're going to make money is if they have some song in a movie soundtrack or a TV commercial. That's all fine and well, but don't write songs to fucking suit it!

INTRO BY AARON LEFKOVE