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Stephen Bayley: Well, they didn’t actually take it over; they had to build something else inside it. It’s not a dome, of course, it’s a tent. But New Labour required it be a dome with all the aggrandising associations of the Vatican and Jerusalem. I enthusiastically accepted the challenge and totally underestimated the scope for political bollocks that was going to follow. It was a great idea, but I’m vaguely sceptical about whether any such project would work.
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The Shard is a stupid building. I’m not against it because it’s tall, although I don’t particularly like tall buildings. Height is a crude way to achieve economic efficiencies. You can make them more efficient in other ways and still meet your commercial needs. The Shard is annoying because it’s so unintelligent, energy-squandering and inflexible. Even though it’s a 21st century building, it’s conceptually a mid-20th century building… it’s just a big ugly Qatari fuck you.We enjoy buildings that appear to be connected with their environment. They don’t have to be a slavish response to it, but they have to be in some way helpful. The Shard has nothing to do with London. It’s just an alien thing sitting on top of London Bridge station and it’s a horrible additional load on the transport resources there.
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I was in Hong Kong, and it looks – even though it’s modernist – like an ancient piece of craft in comparison to the other things that have been built in the nearly 30 years since. There’s a wonderful thing that Braque said about Picasso. He said he used to be a great painter and then he became a genius. I think Norman Foster used to be a really great architect. He made some really wonderfully crafted and intensely cerebral buildings, and about half an hour after his peak celebrity as a proper designer, he turned into a brand.Thinking of the Millennium Dome, the MI6 building is a relatively recent building that is technically public in that it’s part of government, but is actually completely closed off. It’s representative of one of the few areas of government that Thatcher and beyond have invested in, which is “security”. I think there’s an implicit “fuck you” to the people there; because they spent all this money on a building we have no interaction with.
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In one sense, I really deplore that, but I remember having a conversation on the telephone with Boris Johnson just before he became mayor. I said, “Boris, could you tell me what your architectural policies are going to be?” And he said, “Oh, my dear Stephen. We will have Georgian squares. We will have" – and he actually said this – "Richard Foster and Norman Rogers.” I said to him, “Boris, how are we actually going to get these Georgian squares?” And he just said, “Argh… ummmm… argh… well.” I quite like Boris, but he’s not someone you’d look to for clarity and executive action.
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I honestly think about that all the time, and of course the worship of money is always unsavoury, but I don’t know any other city that’s really doing it better. London is the most interesting city in the world, and there’s never been a plan for it, which I think is sort of wonderful.For all its terrible faults, London is more organically vital than New York now. We’re terribly good at holding on to traditions, but we’re also curiously more tolerant of newness than any other place. In New York, particularly Manhattan, they’re so protective and so inward looking. In one sense, while I dislike the crassness and crudeness and the fact that all these new buildings are symbols of greed, I think it's sort of wonderful they’re happening here. Great cities need to be dynamic.

I’m totally conflicted about that, as I am about almost everything else. I can honestly say I deplore the crudeness of most modern buildings, but I also think you can’t legislate for it. Everything that’s built betrays the preoccupations and beliefs of the people who made it. That’s my central belief in all of existence, I just don’t know any examples of where legislating for beauty and utility has actually worked. It might have worked vaguely in Manhattan, but you know what they did in there? They divvied it all up in the 1850s into big great squares, and in those plots you can do anything you want.
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There's a wonderful man called Nicholas Barbon, a contemporary of Wren, who was one of the first property developers in London. He was working just after the Great Fire and he was fantastically particular about what you should do with cities. He developed Red Lion Square [between Bloomsbury and Holborn]. My basic point is that Christopher Wren didn’t have any scruples about knocking things down. His people had the confidence to build something new. I love St Pauls – I don’t want it to be compromised ever. But you’ve got to remember that it was a re-build once upon a time.

I’m not against wealth finding expression; I’m just uncomfortable when the expression it finds is anti-social arrogance. I think most new buildings in the city are woeful, but let's not forget that Venice became beautiful because it had a flourishing business community that was allowed to do more or less whatever it wanted. Now, it’s dead. That’s the central truth about Venice. A more reasonable person would disagree with what I’m saying now, but Venice is a beautiful architectural cadaver. Culturally, economically, artistically, it’s a monument. But what can you do? Is this what urban beauty means? Who wants to live in a dead city? Even Venetians don’t want to live in Venice, for God’s sake.
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Big swinging architecture will very soon have had its day. I am a bruised optimist and believe that, ultimately, intelligence will win. The best newspaper architectural critic ever was an American woman called Ada Louise Huxtable, who died last year in her nineties. She wrote The Tall Building Artistically Reconsidered – a take on Louis Sullivan's original. She’s the source of the idea of public utility. It’s perfectly possible to make buildings that are both commercially viable and artistically exalting. It simply requires genius designers… corporate architecture doesn’t have to be awful. We get the architecture we deserve.@oscarrickettnowMore stories about architecture:'Gulf Futurism' Is Killing PeoplePatrick Keiller Has Been Filming London's Poignant Collapse Since the 1990sThe Future of Architecture