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Chuck Dukowski: We made music that was truthful and that expressed a deep commitment. I think when you look at the best music that came out of hardcore, it was music that was heavy and truthful. To me, songs like “My War,” “Rise Above,” and “What I See” have stood the test of time more than say, “TV Party,” because they give voice to the feelings of disaffection and anger that most of us have. Music is uniquely great at expressing emotion. It creates bonds between people. That’s why the police restrict live music so much—it’s too powerful.Dez Cadena: Black Flag was the first serious band that wanted to do everything on its own. It was a different kind of lifestyle. Like the band sleeping under the desks in the office of the studio we recorded in. That kind of thing.Keith Morris: They’re great songs, amazing songs. They transcend the genre. Maybe we just struck a chord with all the nerds, all the people who never got invited to the party! It was really hard work getting gigs back then. When we got one, we’d be ecstatic, just out of our heads with excitement. Now we might be playing a festival where there could be from five to 50,000 people. But when we started, we didn’t even have monitors.
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Chuck: Black Flag has always had a lot of mystique because of the way we lived and toured, because of Raymond Pettibon’s art, and Henry Rollins’s book Get In The Van. I think Henry doesn’t get enough credit for the continued popularity of Black Flag. He is so talented and has always worked so hard. I feel pressure from myself to play the music with the honor, commitment, and energy that the legacy deserves—but it’s a good kind of pressure like an athlete that loves his game.Keith: Is there any pressure? Yes, and no. There’s a lot of physicality in this brew. Most people can’t really do it. We don’t want to just go through the motions the way many bands do it. There are a lot of doubters out there, a lot of haters. Sure. We get the “It's not Black Flag without Henry” thing. We get “It's not Black Flag without Greg.” But the fact of the matter is the four of us put in our time and helped make those songs what they are. I was one of the founding members. I had to put up with a couple different drummers, the first three bass players who weren’t really bass players. We didn’t really become a band… or a “machine” as Henry would say… until Chuck “the Duke” Dukowski joined the band and word got out that we were practicing three to six hours a night.
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Dez: In a way, it’s more personal for me with FLAG. Black Flag taught me how to be in a band. When I first played with the Misfits, it was just for one show for the 25th anniversary of the band. I did some Black Flag songs with them, and it went well, so I stayed on the tour. Then, Doyle quit the band, and I became the guitarist. I’ve been in the new Misfits going on 12 years now, which makes me the longest running guitar player the band ever had. People might laugh because I’m wearing makeup or face paint or whatever. But we do it our own way and we have fun.I’ve been asked for many years at Misfits shows to play Black Flag songs, so sometimes I’d do “Rise Above” or a couple others in a set, and people have always been very appreciative.I’m wondering about what its like to perform these punk anthems at a different stage in life. The band members have all reached middle age. Some of you guys now have children yourselves. Has your relationship to Black Flag’s lyrics changed in any way or taken on any new nuances?
Chuck: I feel the same way now! It wasn’t just a phase!
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Chuck: I want to have a great time with my friends and I want the audience to have a great time. I want the audience to come out of our shows sweating and thinking “That was righteous!”
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Chuck: It was unexpected and strange that it happened this way. Keith and I had already done two shows together playing Black Flag songs, for free, for fun. One was with the band No Age at McArthur Park and the other was at the Goldenvoice 30th-anniversary show. People liked those shows so much we thought we would do some more—it was never our intention to have some stupid pissing contest. I don’t know what Greg’s motivation is.Dez: I’d heard all kinds of things. You hear stuff online, and until I talked to Chuck, I didn’t know what was up. I’d heard Greg was doing something with Ron. But being that I like to just keep respect for the music, I just try to do that. I don’t think there’s any competition. Maybe in the past, like when Keith left Black Flag and formed Circle Jerks, you could say there was some competition. But even back then I never dwelled on that stuff.
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Chuck: I’m not sure when it was. 1983? We did a tour up the West Coast, the Meat Puppets were with us. I didn’t see the end coming, really. The song “My War” is about my feelings at the time. After Greg asked me to leave I went to my grandparent’s house in Germany for a while. I continued to write songs for Black Flag after I left the band.Would you have played with Ginn again today if he approached you?
Chuck: No.It seems strange to me that Ginn would start to use the name Black Flag again after being so uninterested in punk for so long and after priding himself on continual reinvention and experimentation. Were you surprised by Ginn's announcement of new band and record? Are you interested in the music he makes today? Chuck: I was a little surprised. I’m not very interested in his current music.Keith: I’m not in too much of a hurry to hear Greg’s music now, no. I saw a Ginn performance a couple years back. There were two other die-hards besides me left in the place. All the other performers had left. Half the people who worked there had gone home. They were sweeping the place up all around him and Greg was still playing. He asked me to come sing and I said, “How about some royalties? Maybe then we can talk?”If anyone’s interested in what the new Black Flag might be like, they can always go on YouTube and see the clips of Greg playing with Ron at his 50th birthday party. I guess that’s what sparked this whole thing (Ginn’s Black Flag reunion). Now, I recommend that those people then also go to YouTube and check out our set at the Goldenvoice anniversary party, too, and see how the crowd reacted when wecame out. That’s the kind of show we will be doing.But that Goldenvoice show was billed as Black Flag. Do you really think that’s accurate?
Keith: Well, unfortunately, they billed us as Black Flag, and I wish they hadn’t done that. Because it’s not really exactly Black Flag, no. But they were trying to make as big a splash as possible and that was the way to do it.But, we’ve done nothing wrong. We were all a part of it! Greg Ginn can’t play guitar, bass, and drums all at the same time. He’s a horrible vocalist, that’s for sure. He needed us to make these songs what they are. People want to say Stephen (Egerton) is trying to pose as Greg Ginn or something. But who the fuck wants to pose as Greg Ginn? Greg can pose himself as Greg Ginn! The fact is, to borrow a title from one of Black Flag’s many fine records, there will be a process of weeding out! All will be revealed!Don’t you think the best way to silence any doubts about the reunion’s legitimacy, though, would be to record some great new music together? After all, Ginn is making a record…
Keith: [after a full ten-second pause] Well, maybe. Maybe that’s true. But it’s difficult enough to get together to play at all because we’re all in five other bands.Black Flag started out unable to find venues who would book you gigs and facing police oppression. Now both BF reunions will be playing fairly enormous festival gigs this year to great anticipation. Does this represent to you a triumph of the band's vision?
Chuck: I feel like it’s a triumph! We worked so hard. We changed the business of music. We spearheaded changes that are still working through our culture today. We created the DIY movement by successfully booking our own tours and releasing our own records. We shared that knowledge with other bands and labels, like Minor Threat and Dischord, who ended up doing a better job than we did! Musically, we brought a stylistic progression to musical language and culture that ended up having a very deep impact. The music was composed and performed with a deep and intense passion that gave it lasting meaning.