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Ben:No coaching at all on my part. That, I hope, is one of the things people enjoy seeing about the movie, that you're really on this ride with me and it's largely about my relationship with him and his reaction to me making the film about him. One of the questions I get a lot from people after they've seen the movie is "what would you have done if this didn't happen," or if this ending didn't come about or whatever and the honest answer is, "I don't know." That was part of the joy and pain of making the film. I was just trusting that I had this great character with this built-in conflict and if I stuck with it the story would resolve.How did you get interested in the story and when was the first time that you saw Jack?
I was handed a VHS tape in about 2002 and I saw it, probably a lot like the way you saw it, which is, you know, after a couple drinks you're over at a buddy's house and they're like "you gotta check this out" and "you haven't seen Winnebago Man? Oh my god."
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I think he responded like people respond to anything in their life. He went through all the classic phases: denial and anger, and then depression and sadness. If he were here, he'd say, "Oh, bullshit. It didn't matter at all." The thing you see in the movie is his physical response. You know, like you can kind of see it washing over him in all these different ways. This is a particularly modern phenomenon, to be known in a way, or lampooned in this sort of international way that you have no control over. His response to it from this oldschool sort of news anchor tradition where you didn't have outtakes, let alone the ability to spread the outtakes like this, has really resonated with people. That's because it dramatizes that very old way of making media and this new hyper-aware media culture.
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Yeah this got spread widely amongst--you said it--dub room people in either the ad world or the filmmaking business in Hollywood, where you have a lot of tape and you have a lot of tape deck material at your disposal and you sort of collect this material as it comes through. And this tape lived in that world and that's how it was spread most rapidly, we think.Through the course of making this movie, I found there were all these stories I didn't know when I started out. Apparently Spike Jonze made 100 individual copies on VHS tape, wrapped them, and gave them out as Christmas presents, which is totally amazing. I love that story. And apparently Ben Affleck is a huge fan and he's quoted Jack: "I'm blinded by that fucking hot light." It's been quoted on Spongebob Squarepants and on the last season of the Sopranos, which was pretty controversial.It's all these strange references to it that keep popping up because it's just so appropriate. Like right when you came over to mark this, you could say: "I don't have time to mark this motherfucker." Who doesn't want to say that? Or like, "I'm blinded by this hot light." "Why can't I – I wrote this stuff. Why can't I remember it?"In the age of Youtube and Facebook, do you see people as being more sensitive or paranoid about being recorded? What kind of impact will that have on our culture?
I don't know if there's going be something that's lost in our culture because we're more sensitive now or more media savvy. I think it's just a change in the language. One of the things people responded to in the original Winnebago Man video is this sense of innocence, this almost naïveté on Jack's part. He was familiar with the news on film in the 50s and 60s but was unfamiliar with the concept that you could keep the cameras rolling. And so in the late 80s, when these guys were shooting this industrial video, they were in between takes, just constantly rolling. That was something new for him.
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Well, in terms of the clip, I think what people respond to is the fact that Jack is certainly angry and frustrated, but it's mainly at himself. And he's commenting in an almost existential way about the performance that he's giving at the moment, which is so unusual and so endearing because it's like he's letting you into his mind, he's commenting on like: "Do you believe any of that shit I just said?" or "It's like I can't make my fucking mind work."And you watch him beat himself in front of cameras. I think if it was something nasty, like the Christian Bale rants, or Alec Baldwin leaving that terrible phone message for his daughter, it might be different. You know, people certainly listen to those things and snicker, but I've never listened to them more than once. People I know who have seen Winnebago Man, they've listened tens, if not hundreds and thousands of times.
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Well, the way people have been reacting to Jack when we've screened the movie has been in this way where people will say, "Jack reminds me of my uncle or my friend or my dad," and they personalize him in a way that's really intimate.And that's been amazing to experience. But I don't think it's as simple as we're laughing with or we're laughing at, because I think there's a combination of things happening. But I firmly believe that if it was just schadenfreude, like that nasty intention where we're just snickering at him, people would not have that same response. You know what I mean? You really come to care about this guy and understand this unique position that's he's in, and like him as a person. And his response has been to kind of be overwhelmed by that.He came to our premiere at SXSW in 2009. Like most indie films we were editing like 36 hours before the film. We flew Jack in from his mountain hermitage and had a Winnebago parked out front. The movie played and he put the lights down so he could come in and not be seen. He sat down in the crowd and listened to it. Everybody was laughing--they really loved it.Afterward, he went up to do a Q&A and got this five-minute long standing ovation that was just incredible. I don't think anyone could have predicted that. As only he could do, he quotes André Gide: "A man without anger is no man at all." And he immediately quoted JFK and says, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."If you see the movie, you realize it's important to him to get his political beliefs out. The struggle in the movie is me trying to get him talk about himself as the Winnebago Man, and he wants to talk about his political thoughts. So it's been really surprising for him to hear that people do really care about what he has to say and that they really care about him as a person. I'm not sure that he's had that experience before. It's been personal joy for me to see that in him.BRENDAN FITZGERALD
