June Williamson: We're architects and urban designers and so we are focused on the built environment. That means that when we're looking at places, generally, that have been built out in the second half of the 20th century to be car dependent, not walkable, and have comparatively lower density.
Ellen Dunham-Jones: Similarly, you can look at the street networks. If you've got a grid, more or less, with small, walkable-sized blocks, that's urban form. If you have a highway leading off into cul de sacs, that's suburban form, which is a more treelike kind of pattern.
JW: That kind of development certainly characterizes most of the peripheral areas around the older urban cores in Northern American cities. But it can also be found within municipal boundaries of cities. We advocate for an erosion of oppositional thinking that you're either in the city or the suburbs. When you look at a larger metropolitan area, suburban form can also be found near the center in need of retrofitting.
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You argue that many of these suburban forms are obsolete today because they don't fit the needs of the people who live there now. Can you walk me through some of the major demographic changes that have led to these suburban forms becoming obsolete?
EDJ: One of the biggest shifts is that the U.S. now is a majority of one to two person households. And yet, the majority of land within regional urban boundaries is zoned for single-family houses. That already is something of a mismatch.The expectation going forward is that something like 80 percent of new households that will form over the next 15 years will be these one to two person households. A lot of them would prefer an apartment or a condo—smaller units.Plus you have the aging of the society, that's the other really big piece. Especially in the suburbs, a lot of elderly people loved their single-family house while they were raising the kids. But now that they're empty nesters and retiring, it's kind of lonely. They want to stay in their community with doctors and friends nearby. But a lot of them are looking for, frankly, a more urban lifestyle.It's pretty interesting how the desires of both the younger millennials, Gen Z, and a lot of those aging boomers are converging on an interest in more walkable, mixed-use, compact urban places out in the burbs.
JW: Commuting has also been transformed dramatically over the past decade or so, too. The notion that people live in the suburbs and work in the cities just isn't true anymore.
JW: Absolutely. And in most of the cases we've studied, this is happening because the built places have failed or are struggling to some degree. The dead and dying malls, the vacated office parks, the ghost box stores left behind. Rather than bring back the same thing, this is a tremendous opportunity. It can be as simple as re-inhabiting, or an adaptive reuse—fixing up the building, or changing the parking lot for something that's better suited to the times. Taking something that was commercial and turning it into housing. It can also involve re-greening because so much of the suburbanization processes disrupted the regional ecologies and stormwater flow systems. Then it's an opportunity for wider ranging benefits. There could be places of recreation or social exchange having small plazas and program parks. And then there is redevelopment. Taking a low density, car-dependent use-separated or mono-use place and mixing it up and investing in it.
JW: These choices around parking we've made have been codified through regulations and naturalized as normal.EDJ: We really have made it almost a right to park as opposed to a right to housing. Cars have much more protection than people do.There are these aging properties for the most part; a lot of them have become obsolete and those are places to retrofit. But sometimes [properties] are thriving. They're doing well. Yet they still look at their parking lot as this underperforming asphalt. It's not doing enough of the job. Sometimes there's a mall that is doing well, and it makes more sense now to build a parking deck and build housing and bring in offices and make more mixed use. All of these: the parking lots, the dead space, the vacant spaces. Those are the opportunities for the suburbs to finally address really urgent challenges of equity, climate change, and health.You’ve been documenting retrofitting since 2011, when your first book came out, and now this second book includes even more case studies. Is the retrofitting phenomenon increasing, or does it need a push?
EDJ: If you go into any architecture school or city planning school's library, there are tons of books on downtowns. There's remarkably little written about the suburbs or suburbia. Most of what is there are sort of condemning them as wasteful and ecological boring places.
A former Big Lots box store and parking lot converted into the Collinwood Recreation Center in Cleveland, Ohio. Photo courtesy of City Architecture.
JW: One of the observations in public health is that there are chronic diseases of our time in developed countries, and certainly in Northern America, related to obesity and the higher incidences of diabetes, and so on. One way to address those kinds of diseases is simple physical activity, yet we've designed physical activity out of our environments. To design it back in is a kind of low cost way of getting people to move their bodies.
JW: This is a sociological concept. The "first place" is home and then the "second place" is work. The third place is is a little harder to define.You might know it as the coffee shop, barbershop, or pub—so it might be a privately owned place, a place of business. It's where one habitually gathers with others, forms friendships, and is engaging in social life. These are the places that we can design into suburbs as a way to support the overall social body. EDJ: The suburbs largely sold themselves on the value of the terrific private realm that they present. The suburbs emphasize privacy. As these demographics are changing, there's more and more people recognizing, "I'm lonely. I would like a little bit more of a public realm."If your public realm is just a commercial corridor full of strip malls and parking lots, there's not much opportunity.
The atrium at Bell Works, formerly Bell Labs in Holmdel, New Jersey. Photos by Belma Fishta, 2018.
JW: When thinking about social equity, it's about how people use their social relationships in their social network in order to get connected to opportunity. It really is worth a lot. And it’s one of the reasons we need to challenge the exclusionary practices that have been codified in suburban jurisdictions for decades now. And the coarse sorting that we find in suburbs. Some of the ways to break out of that is in older retail properties, the rent might be less. There's an opportunity for networks of immigrant groups with social and business relationships to form businesses, bring people in, and enliven a place. There is a number of examples of vanilla shopping malls that had seen better days that were dead and dying. They have been reinhabited and revitalized by reflecting the changing demographics of the neighboring areas. One example is Grand Plaza in Fort Worth, what has been rebranded as a Latino mall. One of the large several story department stores was broken up into hundreds of stalls for very small businesses, like a mercato that you might find in Central America or Mexico. The central atrium space in the mall now hosts Mexican wrestling and other kinds of themed events that reflect the culture of the dominant ethnoburb demographics surrounding it.
A lucha libre professional wrestling match at La Gran Plaza de Fort Worth in June 2018. Photo courtesy of Boxer Retail.
EDJ: One of the other myths about suburbia is that the suburbs are middle class. Well, the middle class has been shrinking—we all know that. What we also see is that the suburbanization of poverty has really been tremendous. And yet it's relatively invisible. Poverty remains most highly concentrated in our cities. But there's actually more Americans living in poverty out in the suburbs.We draw attention to some of the efforts that have been made. Sadly, we don't yet see nearly enough examples of retrofitting that are really addressing the problem.There have been some cases of aging garden apartments that are the housing of last resort for a lot of very, very poor people. Those are just kind of aging out. In some cases, they're being redeveloped into more expensive fancy apartments. We need a lot more attention to preserving and restoring a lot of those. It's not solving a lot of ecological problems. These places are very auto dependent. But there's such desperate need for more affordable housing out in the burbs.
JW: That's a super interesting retrofit. Bell Labs is a storied mid-century modern research and development campus designed by Eero Saarinen, a famous architect who unfortunately died right near its completion.All sorts of things were invented there: transistors and technologies that led to cell phones. But it lay vacant for many years.It's in an affluent exurb in New Jersey, and the municipality hoped to tear it all down and develop 50 or so McMansions there
The atrium at Bell Works, formerly Bell Labs in Holmdel, New Jersey. Photos by Belma Fishta, 2018.
JW: Yes, in this case it was Big Lots in a relatively low-income neighborhood on the periphery of Cleveland that has been transformed into a recreational center.
A former Big Lots box store and parking lot converted into the Collinwood Recreation Center in Cleveland, Ohio. Photo courtesy of City Architecture.
JW: Back in the 19th century, Meriden, Connecticut lost all of its industrial use and job space, and so by the middle of the 20th century, a suburban, enclosed shopping mall had been built in the middle of downtown over in creek, and it failed miserably. Every time there was a big storm event, the creek would flood and cause millions of dollars of damage to all the neighboring businesses and the town had become increasingly lower-income.
Formerly a mall and parking lot, Meriden Green, CT, now has relocated subsidized housing, and green infrastructure including a daylit brook and stormwater park. Photos courtesy of Milone & MacBroom, Inc.
JW: Broadly, what we've seen in this past year is an intensification, or an acceleration, of some of the trends that were happening already. There was already the redistributing of populations to some of those locations, especially in metro areas like New York, which are so insanely expensive. If you could find something that was New York-like in New Jersey or Westchester or Long Island, it would make sense that those places might be attractive to people.What we're seeing right now, I think in New York certainly, is people who'd been thinking about this acting on it. But where are they moving in the suburbs? They’re not rejecting the urban lifestyle altogether. They're being drawn to already urbanizing locations in the suburbs.It's not a complete rejection of one for the other, but it's finding like for like. Still, the evidence is mostly anecdotal at this point. Time will tell. I think it's also understood that developers who are planning new projects in these suburban locations are looking to make mixed-use places, and are looking to add different housing types in their suburban projects. EDJ: In the long run a lot of those suburbs that those folks are moving to, if they're going to retain those households, they're going to have to start providing more of the urban amenities. I'm certainly seeing around Atlanta as one example, a lot more communities changing their zoning to allow for access to accessory dwelling units, to allow for what’s been called the "missing middle"—duplexes, quadplexes, townhouses—in existing neighborhoods with suburban neighborhoods that were single family [only]. Now they're allowing that densification. Those regulatory changes have happened just in the last eight months. There's been a surge of that. And it's very much in response to recognizing that there is the market, the demand. People want these more urban lifestyles, even if they are choosing to move to the burbs. A lot of people who have isolated themselves might still be craving places to be able to gather safely. And so it could accelerate the retrofitting of suburbia.Follow Shayla Love on Twitter.
