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Inez van Lamsweerde: I think quite a lot. That series in The Face was one of the first times a fashion series of that kind was published in a magazine. The technique had been used to put more shine on cigarette packs or cars or to make rabbits fly, but in the fashion world it hadn't been done. We discovered that the possibilities for manipulation were interesting, and that you could use it in a subtle way. We were constantly changing images in a way so that it wasn't immediately visible that it had been done on a computer, but there was still a sense of unease or duality in the picture.

No. Although we were a little afraid when we had just started and other, much bigger photographers started using it as well.
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Like Mondino. He had all the money in the world while we did all of our computer work on a super low budget. We had to save up a lot of money and then work on the series for a long time.

Yeah, but we quickly realized that we had found our ideal way of working--that we were on the right path.And then it didn't matter so much what other people did.
Exactly. What did happen was we started reacting when other people went way too far with retouching their images. The flying bunny phenomenon is what we like to call that. We responded to that by destroying our images and just leaving the mistakes in. We used the mistakes to undermine the perfection that results from using a computer, and that lead us to a new visual language as well. There came a point though, when we quit using the computer to alter images, that some people didn't even notice anymore. They would say, "Look at these strange big hands!" while looking at the untouched image.

I think the underground is disappearing. Everything is public now because of the Internet. Everybody has a stage from the moment they starts taking pictures, and that automatically gives people a chance to make it. There are also so many more magazines these days. When we started you had to have Linda Evangelista or Naomi Campbell in your portfolio or magazines wouldn't even look at it. Also, if you had done stuff for Yohji Yamamoto like we did, you didn't even think about shooting for H&M. That just wasn't something you did. But now it doesn't matter who you shoot for and what you shoot it for. Everything's work, and everything is at an equal level, so to speak. I don't think there's anything to rebel against for younger people. I don't know if that's what it's about anymore.
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No, it wasn't. My mother, a fashion journalist, always brought home French Vogue, so I grew up with that. I saw Helmut Newton's and Guy Bourdin's images in the magazine--they were powerful, colorful photos, and that's where my colorful visual language came from. I was a total misfit in fashion during the grunge period, but we kept on doing what we believed in. The only thing I can say to someone who's just starting out is keep doing what you believe in. Doing what you want to do is the only thing you have. When you start out, you're constantly working on putting 400 ideas into your picture. Then, with experience, you learn that a picture like that has something spastic about it and you go, "OK, so I put this idea here, that one there, and this fits best with this." And then, because you found a certain way of working, you feel--this is me.

And then it just flows. If you know what you're looking for, it just goes. But you have to figure that out for yourself, and that's why I encourage people to keep on studying for as long as they can. Stay in school and don't start working as soon as you can, because then you'll have the pressure of having to deliver 12 good shots per day. That leaves you very little time to develop your own visual language.
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That's what I did at the Rietveld Academy in Amsterdam.You were born at the right time in Holland for that though, the government was giving students an easy time back then.
Yes.

That has to do with the choice we made for our way of life. It mostly consists of photography, and we try to work together with people we respect and who inspire us as much as we can. They're a small group of hairdressers, make up artists, stylists, and other people in fashion, and they're like a group of friends. It's a great feeling of being together, and that's why what we do never feels like work.

I think it's because our work doesn't look like most other photographers'. It contains subtle gestures and emotions that make it very much our own. At the same time, everything remains possible, so we don't do only black and white studio photography, or just bright colors on the beach. Some photographers do only one thing, and they do that for everybody they shoot for. For us, the idea is really important, and we try to find as much as we can within that idea that's interesting to us, and that's what we're trying to show in the image. People also like the fact that we think with them from the start. We're not the kind of photographers people approach with a completely finished idea. They usually talk to us first.
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I'm not sure. I think that the disappearing boundaries between art and fashion are what makes us interesting to the art world. But it boils down to the same thing--that it comes from so many different worlds, and that that's the thing that makes it interesting. There's also a kind of beauty to our work that's not always a given in the art scene.Speaking of art, your work My Little Darling Trish from 2002 was shown at an art exhibition curated by Shaquille O'Neill. I find that remarkable.
Haha, yes.

That exhibition was initiated by an art collector who had bought that work. The print he bought was life-sized. He then asked Shaquille to curate an exhibition where size mattered. Shaquille probably went through his collection and chose things he found interesting compared to his own size.Were you there? Did you talk?
Yeah, we talked, shook hands, took a picture, all that. He was really big. Twice my size.I'm in a relationship with a girl I'm working with. We're having trouble. You and your partner have been together both personally and professionally for 18 years. How do you do that, and can you save my relationship?
Vinoodh and I chose to spend every moment in life together. "Why do something apart from each other when you can be together all the time?" we thought. Of course there are difficulties that come with that. You never have any distance and the divide between being at work and at home isn't there for us. Everything mingles--the work stress as well. I'm guessing you have that too, but if you know that, and you identify the dangers it poses to your relationship, you can discuss those matters. I think talking is really important. You need to be open as well.OK, I'll try that. Thanks!JAN VAN TIENEN
