We Asked People If Jokowi's Bule CEO Plan Will Help Or Hurt Indonesia

President Joko Widodo recently suggested that foreigners should be allowed to run state-owned enterprises, arguing that some companies could benefit from the leadership of "three of four bule professionals." The president said the idea came from a meeting with officials from the United Arab Emirates (UAE) who had already tried a similar experiment with success.

"So, the bottom line is that foreigners could temporarily lead and manage several state-owned enterprises so that those companies could progress rapidly, but we would retain ownership—SOE companies should remain state property," the president, who is popularly known as Jokowi, told local media.

The idea couldn't have come at a stranger time. Experts have long wished the government would reform Indonesia's state-owned enterprises. There are more than 100 of them, and companies like Garuda Indonesia aside, many suffer from poor management and sluggish performance. But the country is also in the middle of a tense period of politicking and panic over foreigners stealing Indonesian jobs. The concerns over the ASEAN Economic Community have now given way to false claims that millions of mainland Chinese are stealing Indonesian jobs.

So how does the average Indonesian feel about Jokowi's new bule SOE CEO SOP?

VICE Indonesia: OK, so on 3 January, President Jokowi said that foreigners could lead SOEs. What do you think about the plan?
Abiya: It seems fine to me.

VICE Indonesia: Why?
Abiya: Well, I mean as long as we own the shares of the company it shouldn't cause any problems. If they are only functioning as a leader and the goal is to build out country, then why not?

VICE Indonesia: But there are people who see this as foreigners taking our jobs. Or then think it will create less opportunities for Indonesian workers. 
Abiya: I think what we can do is learn about their ways of doing things. It's not that we're not competent, but it's that they're far more competent than us. So yeah…

VICE Indonesia: So we can take notes?
Abiya: Yeah, exactly.

VICE Indonesia: What do you think of the plan?
Genta: Well, I can understand the president's perspective. He wants to boost competition among Indonesian executives. But in my view, I don't really agree with his statement. SOEs shouldn't be led by foreigners. Well, we can hire foreigners as our consultants to provide input or whatever, but to lead us? No. I don't think so.

VICE Indonesia: But Jokowi is saying that the idea is something that worked in the UAE. Over there, the national bank and the oil company were run by Europeans. It still bothers you even if it worked in the past? 
Genta: Well yeah, if the process of transferring knowledge is his goal, then fine. But again, foreigners can be our consultants, or advisors, or something. And remember, our sentiment about foreigners is pretty high right now. So to avoid the kind of conflict that's happening in our country we shouldn't let foreigners lead SOEs. What I am trying to say is no direct leadership from foreigners.

VICE Indonesia: Jokowi said in his speech that bules can help make SOEs more professional. What do you think?
Rama: I couldn't agree more.

VICE Indonesia: Why?
Rama: Well, like he said, we can learn from their knowledge. We all know bules are really eager to achieve their goals… and I guess we're too lazy. We could use a bit of discipline to help improve us.

VICE Indonesia: But you don't think people will see this as a problem? That they'll say these foreigners are taking our jobs!
Rama: Of course they will. [laughs].

VICE Indonesia: And no problem there?
Rama: Look of course they will take our jobs. But at the same time, it will cut the old roots. The old bosses will be terrified because of this decision.

VICE Indonesia: You must be pretty excited about Jokowi's plan to let foreigners run SOEs.
Daeve: Wow, absolutely not.

VICE Indonesia: Why?
Daeve: Why? Well first of all, we have a different culture and mentality than Dubai and Singapore. And second of all, our country still isn't stable. What I'm afraid of is that they will tell us what to do and we'll just be ordered around by them. So instead of learning something new, we'll just be stuck following them around.

VICE Indonesia: I think the idea here is that this helped the UAE become a success. It wasn't always like it is today. But after they learned from foreign CEOs they really thrived. 
Daeve: Well, maybe it's OK, but again, that's Dubai. I think it's different here in Indonesia. If we want to learn from foreigners, why don't we just go abroad?

VICE Indonesia: So Jokowi wants foreigners to run SOEs. How do you feel about all of this?
Dhira: So this is like his idea? It's the president's personal idea?

VICE Indonesia: Well it's not like it's official or anything. He just said it in a speech.
Dhira: Well, personally, I am not allergic to foreigners, but I do have an allergy to foreign ideas. There are already some Indonesians who are more foreign than foreigners themselves. So personally, I don't care if some foreigners run some SOEs.

VICE Indonesia: How do you feel about people who see this as 'those foreigners are stealing our jobs'?
Dhira: Come on man. It's only one job.

VICE Indonesia: I know, but that's what people say…
Dhira: Well I think our leader should sometimes make an eccentric decision. It warns people like 'hey, if you're messing around with that job, I'll fire you!' If he does that, then people are going to be more motivated. They'll think 'damn, it should've been me sitting in that chair.'

VICE Indonesia: So it could make us more competitive?
Dhira: The way I see it, yeah.