We Can't Stop Arguing About Jonatan Christie's Shirtless Victory

Jonatan Christie's stunning Gold Medal victory over Taiwan's Chou Tienchen was the kind of thing Indonesian badminton fans have been waiting for for more than a decade. The last time Indonesia took the Gold in men's singles badminton during the Asian Games was back in 2006 with a win by badminton great Taufik Hidayat.

But it wasn't his win that set social media ablaze this week. It was Jonatan's, Jojo to his friends, chiseled physique as he celebrated shirtless in Senayan's Gelora Bung Karno Stadium. And, I mean, can you blame them? Just look at this man.

All this discussion about men's bodies got us thinking though, is this objectification? Are women and men who are concerned about equality and women's rights supposed to sexualize a man just because he took his shirt off after winning an important match? Are all those comments online about how hot he is a form of harassment or flattery? The VICE Indonesia team tried to hash it out.

VICE: Is this sexual harassment or objectification?
Yvette Tanamal: It's a bit hard to figure out whether this is harassment or objectification, to me, because a male is the "object" here. Now, OK, I get how that might sound like some "feminazi" rhetoric, but the truth is, this whole controversy over objectification comes form our society's terrible track record in regards to women's bodies.

Listen, the comments on Jojo's Instagram made me want to gouge my eyes out too, but other aspects of this specific case got me thinking—is this harassment or is there an implicit form of consent here? Jojo was asked by reporters why he kept popping his shirt off after matches, and he said that while there was no real reason (aside from the fact that it's probably really hot in there), he admitted that "if it makes people happy, then why not?"

Now this answer isn't the same as consent, but it does imply that he knows what he's doing here. I think Jojo knows that his bare bod is going to set the comments section on fire, and he's fine with it. The first time he did it, during his match against Kenta, his Instagram was already full of fawning comments about his looks.

Then, 24 hours later, he did it again, because "if it makes the people happy," why not? But still, the comments felt a little crass to me, regardless of how chill he was about being objectified. What do you think Zia?

Arzia Tivany Wargadiredja: I felt pretty gross about all the comments too, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is a power dynamic at work here. If some people think all these comments are a form of sexual harassment, then fine, that's their opinion and they're entitled to it. If men like Jojo feel that it's inappropriate, then sure, it only makes sense, we're all human.

But there's also no doubt that men, in Indonesia and abroad, are a privileged class. Privilege and power affects actions, and make the internet's reaction to a man stripping his shirt off on national television and the same reaction to a woman showing "too much skin," totally different things. Just think about it if this was a woman who popped her top off on TV. How would we be reacting then?

That difference alone illustrates that there's a clear difference here, and a lot of that difference stems from power imbalances. I think it's important to note that not all upsetting or nasty comments online are equal. Daniel, you're the only man in this discussion, what do you think?

Daniel Darmawan: OK, so I'm a guy, so everything I have to say about the objectification of women and gender imbalances might be seen as wrong by some people. So maybe take the following with a grain of salt, or the whole shaker if you please.

I agree with Yvette and Zia that the comments section is pretty cringey. It's painful and if it had happened with a female athlete instead I bet you the comments would be full of men being typecast as horny, sexually aggressive dudes. But we can't ignore the fact that a lot of athletes and celebrities out there, of both genders, are totally OK with being considered sex symbols in the West. George Clooney, Henry Cavill, Serena Williams, and Cardi B to name a few.

I think what makes this different is that Indonesia's mainstream gender dynamics are far more rigid than those in the West, and this affects how we think and talk about issues regarding sex, gender, and sexuality. There has never been a sexual revolution in Indonesia. Sex is still a taboo subject. People are sexually repressed, and some don't even know how babies are made.

So does this mean that the thousands of comments about Jojo's body are a form of harassment? I think it has a lot to do with his consent. If he, as an athlete, intends to embrace the image of a sex symbol, then sure. And if he isn't comfortable with it, then he owes a personal explanation to the millions of women lusting after him about why it isn't OK.

Avi, you want to take this home?

Syarafina Vidyadhana: Based on what I see on Twitter and Instagram, there are at least four types of reactions. There are people who think that the comments on Jojo's body are crass but take it too far (like telling women to have some dignity), people who believe that harassment is harassment regardless of power dynamics, people who believe that it's not harassment unless it creates imminent danger or threat to one's wellbeing, and people who take advantage of this discussion to prove their baseless point that feminists only advocate for female victims.

I see why people compare what happened to Jojo with what happens to women in the face of harassment. It's because the rhetoric we're using here are similar. The argument goes: "Jojo shouldn't have taken off his shirt if he didn't want to get harassed" = "women who wear revealing clothes are simply asking for it." But as long as Jojo can feel safe walking home alone and as long as he doesn't have to hide or take extra measures to ensure his safety, then it's not harassment. Of course, he could claim otherwise and if he does feel like he's been sexually harassed, and we shouldn't dismiss it just because he's a man (I read the statistics, men get harassed too). But, for now, he hasn't said a word. While I can agree that Jojo's being objectified here, I still see a difference between being objectified and being harassed.

It's concerning that some people are using this as a momentum to attack feminists and the whole movement. That's just gotta stop. Maybe it's good that people keep the discussion going, that we're talking about this, and that people are addressing this problem more passionately than ever. I just wish there will be a time when we don't have to argue about this anymore.