Talking to the Bankers about Occupy London

While London's barmy Occupy army have been mesmerising the broadsheets, rolling news channels and us with their didgeridoo skills, we realised that one side of the argument has largely been missing: that of the bankers. So we got a camera and some tape and hung out in the vicinity of #OccupyLSX until we'd spoken to enough city workers for my editor to unlock the office doors.

We asked the men in suits what they thought of the occupation and the worldwide economic crisis, and whether they had any empathy with the protesters and activists camped out on the steps of St Paul's. Is there a street-juggling crustie inside every stock broker just silent-applauding to get out? Or would they rather gather in groups and eat children at the weekend like the slimey, Tory lizards we all hope they are? Only one way to find out.

VICE: Hello banker, what's your name?
Roger.

And how long have you worked in the city?

Twelve years.

What sort of banking thing do you do?

I'm an insurance broker working for a finance company.

Do you have an opinion on the Occupation?

Well I think it's an easy thing to hit on the banks and the financial community. But it's not very well informed, because everyone depends on what the City does. I mean, the UK in general benefits very much from having the financial centre here. Without it, a lot more people would be unemployed, plus we would pay more for stuff.

What do you think about the actual people camped out for the Occupation? Is it a problem them being there?

It seems a bit like in New York, I mean they're all… I mean… they look like… hmmm…

Hippies?

Yeah! And in Madrid, and in Italy, as you would expect, it's the militant anarchists out on the street beating up the shops. It doesn't really help the cause. Just wait for the Germans to show up, they can be tough as well.

What's gone wrong with the economy, do you think? No one over at the camp had much insight.

A lot of the problems we have in the financial crisis are due to the different layers of debt that the economy created. It was said that the very top layer, which basically didn't earn interest at all, was so secure that the banks didn't need to count it against equity. But it wasn't super-safe, and they failed to count it against equity. If they had, a lot of the problems we're currently having could have been avoided.

It sounds complicated.

What you need to know is that it's the fault of the regulator. They should have counted that top layer of 'supersafe' debt against equity, but they didn't.

You seem a bit annoyed about it. Can you imagine how the Occupiers feel, even if they don't know about all these 'layers' of debt?

Well, you can sympathise with them in a way. But, you know, the competition here is completely cut-throat, it's a complete jungle, this place. I don't think the politicians understand it, either. None of them know what buttons to push.

Which buttons should we be pushing?

I have no idea.

No one knows then.

I couldn't tell you, but if you get some kind of council of people who aren't active any more from the top financial brass, and you say to them 'Look, from a practical point of view, what the hell should be done?' I'm sure we'll get a lot better ideas than from people standing up in parliament.

Or standing around juggling?

Definitely not.

Did you ever go to any protests in your salad days?

No, not really. I signed a petition once. It's the only petition I've ever signed in my life, against the Shah of Iran. I didn't realise I was supporting this Ayatollah Khomeini, who was sitting in Paris at the time. After that I never signed anything again.

You can't let one bad experience put you off forever.

The thing is you can be against something, but you need to know what are you for. That goes for these people as well actually [gestures to the #Occupy camp], it's nice to be against the finance, the banks or whatever… But what the hell would you want instead? Communism didn't work very well. They don't like capitalism as long as they're not getting the money themselves. Pay any one of those guys the bonuses bankers get, and they'd be happy. They wouldn't stay around another five seconds.

Here's a man explaining the concept of money to some Occupiers. They seemed to think it was a pretty good idea.

Then we spotted this advert for a vegan diet. It put us off our bacon sandwiches, so I guess it sort of worked.

We couldn't get a picture of the next guy because I had to literally chase him down the road to interview him. So: He was quite young, very blonde and clearly living the dream. Your stereotypical yuppie mensch. The lizard man you see in your nightmares stealing your children's lunch money with one hand and exploring the inside of your wife's mouth with the other. The two guys with him said literally nothing, they just stood there smirking at everything he said. He looked kind of like a chubby version of Draco Malfoy. He was definitely in Slytherin. You get the idea now.

VICE: Could I ask your names?

Zach: I'm Zach, this is Tom and that's Anthony.

What do you guys think about the Occupation?

Look, to be honest with you, yeah, I sympathise with what they're saying, but from my perspective I work in a bank, I need to have a job, I need to make money, so there's nothing much I can do about it. There's a lot of people over there who are telling us what's wrong, but no one's really offering any solutions, so I'm just standing there listening to people shouting and getting angry. I don't think them sitting there is gonna do as much as they think it is.

Tom, Anthony, do either of you guys have an opinion?

[Tom and Anthony shake their heads]

Ok. Zach, do you think the Occupiers have a problem with being taken seriously, then?

Well, I don't know about being taken seriously, but in the political world and in the Western world sitting on the floor outside a cathedral is not going to achieve anything. You need someone at the top with a proper voice. That, it's very nice all that, but it's not gonna achieve anything. That's what I think, anyway.

What do you think of the jugglers? What's the best trick you've seen?

Mate, I've been to Glastonbury four times, I've been to India, I know all about it, you know? I'm not a mug. I just happen to work in the City. At the weekends I dress like that.

You sound a bit defensive. Do you feel like you're being victimised?

What, people who work in banks? Not me particularly, we're small cogs in a massive wheel. We don't see ourselves as 'bankers' as such, more people who work in a bank. We wanted a job when we left uni, we didn't have anything else to do. If these companies were to leave and move to Asia, a lot of people would be out of work. This place would be a lot more depressing than it is now, I can guarantee you that.

Have you ever protested about anything?

The only thing I ever feel passionately enough about to speak up is West Ham. Other things, I kind of just let them go over me because I think, 'What can I do to bring down corporate greed?'

Not work for a bank maybe. So you do think there is a problem with corporate greed?

There's a problem with how all the money's in one place, but what you gonna do? What am I gonna do? I'm not gonna sit outside a fucking church in London and try to do something about nothing, I'm just gonna get some money and get on with my life. They should do that as well.

What's your name, Mr Banker?

Leo.

Hi Leo. How long have you worked in finance?

Four years now.

What sort of thing do you do?

Right now, fund management.

And what's your opinion of the Occupation?

I don't agree with their means. I don't share their ideals. I'm Spanish, and we have the same thing in Spain. It is tremendously skewed politically right now, because something needs to be done – yes, yes indeed. But the thing is, these people are not asking for anything in particular. They're asking for overall reform, I don't think it's very productive to criticise and not to propose anything.

Do you think the protesters will achieve anything?

No. I haven't been down there, but I don't think you have to go down there to know what they want. But, no, they won't.

So people basically need to shut up and learn to just get used to it.

Well, I'm not sure about what the end result is going to be. I mean, there have been quite a few crises in the last 30, 40, 50 years. I think, more than anything, that it's an exercise in responsibility that needs to be taken, and that takes more than protests and sit-ins in front of St Paul's church.

Some of the Occupiers were talking about starting a new society, what do you think about that?

I think setting up a new society is fair enough. I mean people can do what the hell they want. But what is it that's new about that society? What values are they trying to instil? What is it they're trying to propagate as a set of values, as a set of rules, as a set of ideas? You know, saying 'Oh yeah, we need a new society' is great, but what is it gonna be like? It's not a solution in itself.

Any advice for the people camped in St Paul's square?

Maybe they can come up with some good ideas, if they do then good for them. In the meantime, they need to be saving all the money they can!

What's your name, sir?

Michel.

What type of banking do you work in?

Finance change.

What does that mean?

Process management.

Of… money?

Errr… yeah, moving money around is part of what I do.

OK. Michel, the word on the street is things have gotta change. We need a new system. What do you think?

There are fundamental things that need to continue to change. There is regulation in place that is altering things already. It may be going the right way, in steps. Some people probably want it faster.

Is the Occupation in St Paul's square having an effect on the City, making it move faster?

No.

So what's the point?

It's the knife edge I suppose, protesting. It highlights the issue and then the real work gets done somewhere else. Maybe it just gets it public and then it gets political attention, and once it's got political attention then perhaps they'll come back and speak to the banks.

You think that the protest will work then?

Yeah, you do need a starting point. You're seeing it gather in size and momentum. I think as a protest in itself, it's probably quite small, it's slim pickings. But as part of the all rest of the protests going on around Europe and the world, yeah, maybe it's something that needs to be addressed.

Do we need a brand new society, or is this one good for a few more spins?

Well you can always have a grand vision and then there's the practicality of it, you're always going to diverge. Yeah, it's worth aiming for the ideal, but then you have to look at the practicality and see how close you can get.

When you were younger did you go to any protests?

Yeah, but my protests were very different because I'm originally from South Africa. We obviously had very different reasons for protesting.

Ah I see, yes, OK. What issues do you think #Occupy should focus in on, then?

Basically, I think there needs to be a lot more focus on government policy on control than anything to do with the banking environment. Banks, you know, they're just capitalists, they're just out there to make money. It's not that big a reform, we just ran away with ourselves. Now we're living through the hangover and everyone gets upset and protests that we have to pay it back. The banks? It's not their fault.

'Ran away with ourselves' is a very loaded term considering the hardships some people will and are facing. Does the financial community as a whole accept some blame?

You're trying to blame the glutton. So, there's a greedy bastard at the table and you're saying, 'Hey, fat pig, why you eating all the food?' What's the benefit? He's not gonna stop eating, he wants to take all that he can get.

It's the person who's handing out all the food who needs to say, 'Sorry mate, you've had enough, you need to share with everyone.'

Can you understand the anger then?

Yeah of course, everyone can see the Fat Cat taking away all their food. But if everyone shouts at the Fat Cat, you're not gonna fix anything. You need to speak to the person giving out the food.

Could I ask your name?

It's Louise.

What finance thing do you do?

Investment management.

Do you have an opinion on the Occupation?

I just don't know what they want to achieve by it. Do they just want us to all, you know, shut up shop? I think bankers keep on getting quite a lot of bad press, but I think what they're forgetting is that most of us just want to come into work and pay our mortgages. Just like everybody else. I don't think you can make a generalised statement that everybody in banking is… um…

Evil?

Yeah.

Has it been an inconvenience having people camped outside where you work?

Just the fact that I can't even get to my gym, I've gotta go around.

That must be annoying.

Yeah, well I guess it gives me the opportunity to burn a few calories. But, other than that, no.

What do you think of the protesters themselves?

Well, are they on benefits? Who's paying for those benefits? Probably our taxes. I'd be very curious to actually look at the demographics of who's protesting, and see how many have full-time jobs. If not, how are they funding themselves?

Should the bankers stage a counter protest?

I don't know, I think we just take it all and carry on. I'm just a normal person.

Could I ask your name?

Anthony [redacted].

What area of finance do you work in?

Private finance at [redacted].

What's your job title?

Investment Portfolio Manager.

Do you have an opinion on the Occupation?

Well, I can understand why people are protesting, but I don't think they necessarily see the whole picture.

Which bit specifically are they missing?

The bit that means a personal responsibility for the repayment of debt. Debt has been self-generated, by and large, and it needs to fall on the shoulders somewhere. It's now fallen on the shoulders of government, and the way that it will be repaid is with higher taxes and the rest and I think that's inevitable.

Higher taxes and cuts will surely affect growth, isn't this an issue?

Of course it's an issue, there won't be any growth for another two to three years until the debt's been largely reduced.

Can you see more movements like Occupy taking root if that is the case?

Depends on the speed of the downturn. If there's a very fast downturn and it's very badly managed, then no doubt there'll be blood on the streets. But I suspect it will be reasonably well managed, with a salami slicing of the bad news [makes slicing action with hand]. There'll be protests, but manageable protests.

What is your view on protesting in general?

I haven't got a problem with people protesting because that's the reason I live in this country. Presumably it's the reason we all live in the West. It's a good opportunity to voice an opinion. There's nothing wrong with that and that's probably very useful.

Is it unfair that people at the bottom, who had less to start with, will suffer more than others who have more?

Well yeah, but come on, it's not fair that Greek public sector workers can retire at 55!

There seems to be an ambivalence within the financial community to the criticism directed at them.

There have been a few people who have been responsible for abusing opportunities badly. One could rest that quite firmly on some of the banks and some of the merchant banking facilities. That's obvious. But whether or not people who work in the City actually feel aggrieved at all about it or not, or personally responsible for it, probably is very unlikely. The City involves all sorts of people, we live all over the country, we just happen to work here. Not necessarily for the same organisation, or same sector for that matter.

It's a very multi-tiered environment, it's not as simple and it's not as black and white as some people might actually imagine.

What do you think of the Occupyees' ideas about a new society, a new way of running things?

There's a good, old hippie culture of that, isn't there! I don't think we're going to see the end of 600 years of economic history in a puff of smoke, just because we're having to go through some rather tough times. It's not the first time, not even in my lifetime.

When you were younger did you go to any protests?

I use to wear flip flops and a tie-dye t-shirt and everything, you know! Come on! I was actually quite young at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight I don't regret it. One has to do it. I don't know who's actually out there at the moment, hopefully it's a good cross section of ages. I suspect the majority are younger, I don't know. I might go have a look.

WORDS: JOSHUA HADDOW
PHOTOS: JACOB PERLMUTTER & KEVIN CAMPS