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Bill Bolloten: I think it's dangerous. It's extending the eyes and ears of the state. It's requiring a kind of law enforcement role teachers are not well-equipped for. The government's Prevent strategy guidance applies to all schools, colleges, and universities—even nurseries. I really don't know what the signs of extremism are supposed to be when you're four or five years old; when you're still learning to write and express thoughts.Are there any signs of vulnerability primary school teachers could be watching out for?
The idea there is a set of indicators you can assemble that will point to a child vulnerable to being radicalized—I'm not convinced by that idea. There's no evidence for it. In one of the bits of government guidance, it says "there is no single route to terrorism, nor is there a simple profile." But unfortunately the idea there are clear signs to be detected is embedded in the government's approach and the training schools are getting.What are the indicators supposed to be?
A lot of it is vague and contradictory. There are supposed to be indicators of vulnerability like "changing your dress or appearance in accordance with a group." Other indicators mentioned on policy documents are "identity crisis" or "personal crisis" or "difficulties with social interaction." I mean, this is absurd. I could have ticked all of these when I was 15-years-old.
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Well, when you're in your teenage years, you get curious about the adult world. Schools need to be safe places to express controversial opinions as you're exploring ideas. But there's no correlation between just looking at something, or talking about it, and getting drawn into unlawful acts.How will pupils feel about being monitored?
The danger is it will fracture trust. Pupils will feel like they're under surveillance. At this year's National Union of Teachers conference, there were a lot of delegates saying pupils had told them, "I've got opinion on this, but I'm not going to share it because I'd be labelled an extremist."
And in younger children, how could it affect their psychological development?
If you create a situation where, from four or five years old, children are given the impression they've done something wrong or potentially dangerous because of something perfectly innocent they've written or said, that can't be good for their healthy development. Labelling or stigmatizing a young child can clearly have consequences for their mental and emotional well-being. They could become more withdrawn and quiet if they feel the school isn't a safe place to express themselves, just at the time they're still trying to establish a secure sense of their own identity. Singling children out could lead to them mistrusting each other and undermines the welcoming, trusting atmosphere a school should create.
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Michael: The Prevent strategy has become an industry, and the idea of keywords raising alarm bells for teachers is ridiculous. For one thing, youth language changes. And the people who make the software don't understand how fast the terms change among young people, so software isn't going to be able to keep up anyway.So primary school children aren't likely to be vulnerable to extremism, whatever the terms they're using?
The idea children searching or using certain phrases are somehow vulnerable to supporting terrorist organizations—no, that's ridiculous. Children are inquisitive. They hear things—they might have heard something on TV about jihad or holocaust, and they might say something shocking about it. They are challenged, whether by friends or teachers, and they learn. Should we be concerned they'll join ISIS or a Neo-Nazi group? No. School should be a free space where young people feel free to ask and discuss things.What sort of age do young people begin to explore potentially worrying political ideas?
As they enter their teenager years, at around 13, young people do become more curious about the world, about injustices, and as they get closer to be an adult, they wonder where they are going to fit in. Young Muslims can be the most politicized. But if you have a young guy asking questions about Israel and Palestine, you have to try to develop their interest in history. If you refuse to engage, they are more vulnerable to going to YouTube preachers explaining things with conspiracy theories.But how do teachers know when controversial ideas are things to be worried about?
Good teachers can see patterns of behavior, a change in attitude, and judge whether to intervene. But software can't do that. A box on a form can't do that. Mosques are now afraid to engage in anything like political discussion, so that space has been closed down for young people. If we take away schools too, it could drive young people online as the only place these difficult ideas are discussed.Follow Adam Forrest on Twitter.