Illustration by JP Flexner
If you spend any time following the daily conversations among the online punk community (may God help you, by the way), you’ve likely seen the recent surge in debate over stagediving. It started when two videos surfaced from Joyce Manor’s recent tour where the band stopped mid-song(s) to address stagedivers they felt were being particularly aggressive and inconsiderate to some of the smaller, more vulnerable members of the crowd. The band later commented via Facebook, saying, “I wasn't able to watch people being hurt so I asked people not to act in the way that was hurting people. If that means you don't support the band, I respect that.”
Naturally, many people were quick to hurl their opinions on stagediving onto the pile, as if they were a sweaty, shirtless fat guy at a Madball show. Some showed support for Joyce Manor and their measures to ensure the safety of their own crowd. Others defended their own right to chuck their body mass atop the heads of whomever they damn well please, as is their God-given right outlined in our nation’s Constitution with liberty and justice for all amen. On one side of the conversation, people were arguing in favor of punk shows being “safe spaces” meant to create environments that are more communally respectful than that of the outside world. While the other side noted that punk shows are inherently chaotic and it’s the responsibility of the show-goer to protect him or herself accordingly. And somewhere in the middle, some people wondered what the fuck we were all doing arguing over something as trivial as jumping off a slightly elevated platform.
Since every single person who has ever stood in a crowd and watched a band seems to have an opinion on the matter, we wanted to know what the people on the other side of the microphones think. So we reached out to a few musicians for comment on stagediving, including Joyce Manor, whose label noted that they “aren’t doing press on the matter,” likely because they understandably don’t want to be tied to this ridiculous subject for the rest of their careers. Many other musicians were willing to offer up their thoughts, though it should be noted that a few others declined to comment, often citing a desire to “avoid getting involved in the whole thing.” Some even said things along the lines of, “I can’t even comment because I know stagediving is stupid but I still do it.” For those who participated (who we should point out are speaking personally and not on behalf of the rest of their respective bands), we asked everyone the same question:
Is stagediving OK and should bands be responsible for policing their own crowds?
Here are their responses…
While we ask our audiences not to stagedive, I don’t think it should be flat-out banned. In the right environment, stagediving can be awesome (e.g., Pantera). I do, however, feel that if a band asks the audience to not stagedive, that request should be honored. My general opinion is that it’s barbaric, dangerous, and selfish, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing when dealing with rock ’n’ roll (e.g., Pantera).
—Sean Bonnette, Andrew Jackson Jihad
When my wife and I went to see the Pixies a few years ago, I didn't slam-skank to "Debaser" in a very unwelcoming crowd of people, I held my woman close and we gently swayed in the breeze. Had the Cro-Mags gone on afterwards, I would not have thought twice about haphazardly launching myself off the highest point into the same group of people. It's conditional. People should really be able to police themselves and use common sense, but lots of people are dumb. Personally, I'm all for stagediving, unless you're bad at them, in which case I will be giving low scores from the side like a referee at a swim meet. Practice is encouraged, like those weird kids in Another State of Mind.
—Brian Gorsegner, Night Birds
I generally think that stagediving is not OK because it eliminates the space at shows for people who are not physically able to hold up a stagediver or who would generally like to avoid being kicked in the face. I am one of those people for both of those reasons. I enjoy watching (as opposed to just listening to) bands who want to make space for as many people as possible. Those are usually the kind of bands that speak up when it looks like people might be getting hurt, or when people start stagediving. I don’t think it's policing anyone, but rather allowing everyone to just physically be at a show. Not everyone prioritizes that though, and there are plenty of bands who don’t want people to get hurt but who are fine with stagediving when the crowd seems into it. When bands encourage that, however, they’re also encouraging a space that less people, including those who are already fans, can be a part of. The bottom line, for me, is that I think it says a lot about a person who doesn’t want to stop stagediving or moshing at the request of an audience or band member in order to put their good time ahead of someone else’s health and physical safety.
—Lauren Denitzio, Worriers, The Measure [sa]
A few things I believe:
a) Stagediving and moshing have never been my “thing” as a music fan but I believe they’re healthy expressions of having fun at a show.
b) I don’t think it’s in any way “up” to the bands to police their audience—chaos is beautiful. However, if it looks like someone is actually getting hurt, it’s totally cool and justified to speak up about it.
c) In the case of Joyce Manor, I’m sure even those dudes would admit it crossed the line between a personal confrontation and making sure everything was going groovy at the show, but it initially came from a good place. Emotions fly high when you’re full of adrenaline onstage at a punk show.
—Max Bemis, Say Anything
To me, a show is a collective experience between the band and the crowd. I don't like the idea of the band being removed from the show, but I'm also not all that down with the idea that it's totally the performer's responsibility to "police" the situation. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. For the most part, it's a question of judgement—some shows are stagediving shows, some aren't, it's usually pretty easy to tell. If you're diving into a crowd of muscly, heavy-weight, rowdy guys, that's one thing; if you're dumping your fat arse on the heads of a bunch of skinny teenagers, that's another. Of course there are always going to be arseholes at shows who either judge it wrong or don't care. In that case, I think it's up to everyone to step up—the band, other people in the crowd, and indeed the security (a much maligned group in my opinion—a lot of show security guys work really hard at a difficult job and keep a lot of people safe). If we look at what's happening as a communal event in which everyone has a degree of participation and responsibility, it should be pretty easy to work this out.
People who don’t support Joyce Manor are effectively fighting for their right to beat the shit out of women at shows. Why anyone feels the need to cultivate yet another safe space for violent able-bodied men is completely beyond me.
I actually don’t even understand why four idiots complaining about Joyce Manor being more awesome people than them is even making news, since we just finished a string of sold-out dates with Joyce Manor, filled with all kinds of kids who’ve got nothing but love for that band. If you know anything about Des Ark, you know it’s fucking CRAZY for us to tour with a pop-punk band, but every night, those rooms were packed with young women and young queer kids—people who really need to experience being in a safe space—and that tour was our favorite. Fuck any human who encourages the use of violence as a means for crowd control, this is what cops do, so… congratulations.
It’s a shame how few punk bands shaped me as a musician, because most punk bands gave no fucks about me coming to their shows and feeling safe and that was always very real and clear to me as a young person. I think Joyce Manor are awesome people, and that they’re getting shit for simply showing their respect for women is one of the truly dumb moments in music history.
—Aimée Argote, Des Ark
Stagediving is fuckin’ rad! Let 'er rip!
Buuuut you gotta be mindful of where those knees and elbows are gonna land, ‘cause those glasses and faces might get smashed and that is noooo bueno.
Bands absolutely have a responsibility to make sure people are safe at their shows but in general, we all owe it to one another to be aware of safety and to not be a complete dick.
So thats my take on it—don’t be a dick.
—Chris Conley, Saves The Day
Pretty soon, I'm going to need to get my front teeth replaced. Playing in punk bands since I was 14-years-old, I've accepted the fact that every so often, a stagediver is going to kick a microphone into my teeth. Two years ago, we were playing a show in North Carolina, we were two songs from the end of the set, and I made the mistake of closing my eyes for a second. I was feeling it. Next thing I know, I'm feeling a Shure SM58 microphone smash into my tonsils. I literally swallowed the whole fucking microphone. A stagediver kicked it down my throat. I pulled the microphone out and my mouth was full of shattered teeth. I smashed my guitar in a rage, a Rickenbacker, so sad. It was either him or the kid and I knew it wasn't the kid’s fault so the guitar paid the price. After the tour was over, a dentist filed my teeth down so they didn't look all fucked up. I used to be able to tear open a bag of chips or a candy wrapper with my teeth. Not anymore. There are already a couple new chips in my old teeth though and I know eventually a similar incident with a stagediver will happen and there'll be nothing left to file down. I will miss my teeth.
It always amazes me. Crowdsurfers tend to come straight towards the center mic stand, land on the monitors, roll onto my guitar pedals, and smash into the mic stand. There's field goal-sized space to the right and left of me but the center is where they want to hit and where they always want to launch back out from. Crowd participation has always been an essential part of my band's live show. You can be feeling like total shit but if a crowd goes off, it will save the show. It's gotten to the point where if the stage isn't overrun by people during the last song of the set and I'm not slightly fearing for my life, then I don't really think a show is a success. I love stagediving and I love a good free-for-all but that being said, I've seen it done wrong so many times.
You're a fucking asshole if you stagedive feet first. You're a fucking asshole if you don't judge your jump. Make eye contact with the area you're heading, make sure it's all smiles and righteous rage. There are crowds that are right for it and crowds that aren't right for it. If you're going to crowdsurf, know your waves. It has to be a full room, a deep room, compact enough that the crowd doesn't domino backwards because of your weight when you jump. When a room is that tight, you're either the type of person that wants to be smashed together body on body, covered in stranger sweat and spit and you get as close to the stage as you can or you don't and you stand in the back of the room.
It's a two-way street though. If someone jumps up onstage and comes at me trying to grab my head and plant a kiss on my lips, I should have the right to instead smash them in the face with my guitar headstock. An audience member should have the right to defend themselves against crowdsurfers. If someone is imposing their body onto someone else, then that person should have the right to impose their body onto them. Maybe audiences need to come armed with some kind of Nerf spears and shields so they can put up a strong defensive line Braveheart-style to ward off unwanted jumpers. Joking aside, I'm just always hopeful that everyone is careful and trying not to be a dick and that everything is happening in the name of fun.
I was never that type of person when going to shows. At first, I used to feel like I had to go into "the pit" when I went to shows when I was a kid and I always got tossed around like a rag-doll. It always got hurt and it was never fun. I started standing in the back of the room, content to just listen to a band. From both the audience perspective and the stage perspective, I've learned how crowd participation can save and ruin a show. I respect the fuck out of Joyce Manor’s stance. I trust that they know these same differences. I've always tried to call out fucked up shit when I see it happen. Good for them for doing the same.
—Laura Jane Grace, Against Me!
Bands are in your city to play music. For the shit-holes that don't have security in place (most places punk bands play), it's up to the band and crowd to share a common goal as to what's to be expected and accepted during the show. If someone's being an idiot, they get called out. Not hard really... (See what I did there?)
No one should walk out of a show that they paid to get into (or free shows for that matter) legitimately hurt. However, you cannot govern an entire body of people to adhere to whatever YOU think is acceptable behavior at a show.
Idiot stage potatoes wearing book bags that feel the need to jump into the crowd and head walk every other song aren't going away. Neither are the try-hards with their 35 mm flashing cameras that seem to be all up in your grill at every show these days.
Everybody wants to make an impression. What will yours be?
—Keith Yosco, The Holy Mess
Everything is contextual. There's a world of difference between a Joyce Manor show and a Haymaker show. If someone doesn't want their fans stagediving at their shows, it's perfectly acceptable. However, I don't think there needs to be a dialogue about this issue, and generally, the idea of creating a "safe space" is pretty farcical, in my opinion.
I realize that this argument is supposed to be about my stance on stagediving itself, but I think this whole issue with the Joyce Manor video clip is about something else entirely. Nobody is talking about “policing” shows or forcing anyone to do anything. This argument is about whether or not empathy trumps being able to do whatever you want, whenever you want. Why would anyone be outraged by being asked to refrain from jumping on other human beings for about 45 minutes to an hour of one band’s set? That’s all that’s happening here, and when people choose to become enraged about it, the only plausible reason for it is the result of a much deeper frustration and lust for power that has nothing to do with Joyce Manor or stagediving. It’s got nothing to do with music or taking a real stand against anything. It’s probably got a lot more to do with the sense of power one gets from jumping on top of the people below, or the rush of trashing human beings on the web with the impunity of an anonymous post. Really, the discussion at hand has entirely to do with power, this supposed stagediving argument that’s taken over our feeds. And look at how people are handling it. The macho crap that’s being spewed forth (let the comments telling me to “shove a tampon in it” roll forth). I get it, on the internet you can call someone a faggot or a pussy and get away with it. You can say the worst things that are inside of you, quickly and without a thought. What a rush! It’s terribly easy to get lost in that world, and on both sides of the abuse.
I’ve heard the common defense of stagediving, that anyone who doesn’t want to be kicked in the face should stand in the back. To me, that sounds more like the mundane everyday bullshit that I thought we all were trying to get away from, we enlightened show-goers. It’s in fact a total mimicry of the outside world, where the abuse of power runs rampant. In my opinion, there’s nothing special or revolutionary about the same 10 to 20 people taking turns jumping on people, especially ones who might be smaller than them. How is this supposed to be about music? Maybe you’re jumping on a kid going to her first show, and you give her a broken nose. Maybe you’re jumping on a 13-year-old, and he leaves the show in a fury that he’ll later take out on somebody weaker than him because he doesn’t know how to deal with it. But you’re not thinking about that, you’re just doing what you feel like doing because you want to and can, you capitalist munch. People talk about the goodwill within the pit and I think what they’re really talking about is basic decency: of course you pick someone up off the ground when they fall. That’s a human being on the ground. It’s got nothing to do with the pit or any scene. You see someone fallen on the ground anywhere, help them up. That’s the bare minimum of how we should regard one another.
I want to be a part of something that promotes thinking outside of oneself. That’s what a real community is, punk or otherwise. That’s what empathy is. If I see people hurting each other right in front of me and don’t say anything, what kind of human being am I? Barry [of Joyce Manor] did his duty as a human being, he saw someone about to get hurt, and quickly stopped it. I hope I’d have the common decency to do the same thing.
—Frances Quinlan, Hop Along
Bands policing their crowds is a strange one. I think the band has to step in if things are getting dangerous, but beyond that, it's more up to the crowd to decide how they want to react/dance to the music. They define that—they're the ones who have to deal with each other. As for stagediving, in the right setting, there is nothing better... and in the wrong setting, it's so offensive and self-indulgent.
—Jack Antonoff, Fun., Bleachers
That's a complicated question, and one that has cyclically waxed and waned in importance in the brief history of hardcore punk. I think that stagediving can be OK, and it can be fun, and certainly exciting and kinetic, but as soon as it becomes an obstacle to safety, and people's perceptions of safety, it also becomes problematic. The cardinal rule of "don't be an asshole," seems simple on the surface, but it involves a lot quick mental calculations about size, weight, velocity, and context that a lot of people just out to have a good time can't be bothered to think about. And this whole notion of, "If you don't want to get hit, stand in the back," is absolute bullshit, privileging perceived toughness over safety. I remember in the early 90s, a bunch of us writing this manifesto that we handed out at MCC about reclaiming the pit from all the thug mentality that had come to dominate the NJHC scene, and for a while, we were sort of organized to get people to chill out when they were dancing too aggressively. Then there was Fugazi, who really brought this dialogue into the spotlight in the underground community. Ian had gotten sick of all the ritualized violence (including stagediving), and began to question the balance between 1) the freedom to express yourself and 2) the freedom to be safe and free from harm in a communal space. They would regularly stop a show to call out someone who was acting like an asshole, and sometimes they would just give the offending party their $5 back and walk them to the exit. I thought that was kind of rad, but people were really divided on their reactions to it, and so Fugazi was a real lightning rod, but this discourse, I think, really laid the foundation for all the rad DIY hc/punk that came into the forefront in the 90s, that was more focused of awareness of other people's experience in a political sense.
Whether or not bands are responsible for the safety of their audience is a question that each musician has to answer for themselves. But you'd have to ask yourself: if your audience's safety isn't a priority for you, what the hell are you building? It's always been important to us, and we usually make an issue of it, but sometimes insufficiently so. I generally trust the kids that come to see us to know the difference between fun and violence, but sometimes that trust is naive. To the extent that at a recent show, there was this pretty big bro dude who was jumping on top of people a lot, not just diving and rolling off towards the back of the room, but sort of aggressively keeping himself on top of everyone in that way that makes you wonder whether they're just having fun or actively indulging their narcissism in a "hey look at me" sort of way. I didn't realize until the end of our set that this was going on, as I was kind of distracted by a bunch of internal stuff that I won't get into. Afterwards, a couple of people told me that this dude had been fucking up their experience of the show, and I felt ashamed for not noticing it and not handling it, because it can usually be diffused pretty easily. Major pops to Joyce Manor for bringing this conversation back to the forefront.
—Dan Yemin, Paint It Black
Stagediving, eh? That's what we're talking about? Look, crowdsurfing is fine, fun, and a pretty decent visceral part of a show (as long as no one is being a gropey pervert/asshole). Generally, the upside-down weirdos in the crowd tend to add to the vibe and fun of a live show, again, as long as everyone's being respectful and cool.
Stagediving, however, ain't the same. Someone always gets hurt, and jumping on people from a big stage (often over a barricade) is just a dangerous thing to do. Most of my friends who have recently stagedived (dove?) have all been dumb, drunk men who have ended up very injured (and HA!). Plus, you land on tiny people and you hurt them and, maybe I'm a prude, but hurting people for no reason other than you wanna be where they are is a shitty thing to do. I mean, there's plenty of good arguments against stagediving, but the only arguments for it tend to sound like arguments in favor of hazing or revenge porn, i.e.: asshole arguments put forth by assholes to justify asshole behavior. I dunno. If you're a little kid, stagedive. If you're tiny, go ahead and stagedive, but if you're a normal-sized dude, eh, come on, dude. You're bumming everyone out.
—Brendan Kelly, The Lawrence Arms
To be fair to Joyce Manor, when people stagedove to Texas Is The Reason in the 90s, we’d cut the song and ask they’d stop. Not unprecedented. It was about everyone being equally entitled to stand wherever they want, saying you’re not entitled to your fun at another’s expense. It was also about saying hardcore isn’t about blindly clutching our traditions, but being agents of change, fixing what doesn’t work. If you really think you’re “punk,” be prepared to shed your skin and create new traditions that are relevant to our lives today. At the end of the day, is jumping on heads or beating the shit out of each other really the best and only way to say you love a band?
—Norman Brannon, Texas Is The Reason (via Twitter)
Stagediving can sometimes be the element that really makes a show an exciting memory for a band. You know that once the first stagedive happens, the floodgates could easily open. And that can be a great thing, as long as no one gets hurt.
I think folks who choose to stand at the front of a crowd probably have a good idea of what they're getting themselves into, but it's never fun being pummeled over and over by bodies flying overhead. Not to mention, it's never fun for a musician to have to buy new pedals when they're out on the road for weeks at a time—maybe not making enough money to do so—because that one person had to stagedive for the hundredth time that night. It's also never fun to stop playing your song because someone keeps unplugging your shit without realizing, because they want to flail themselves off stage over and over.
It can be an exciting element to a show that can become abused pretty easily. At some point, it just becomes common courtesy to, if you want to, do one stagedive, and then continue to enjoy yourself from the crowd. I don't think Joyce Manor could have been more polite and courteous to the crowd or the stagediver in question that night. The exchange even ended in the shaking of hands. A classy move. The fact of the matter is, some people just need to be told to stop. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy the show. Have a great time. But try to not ruin the show for everyone else.
—Chris Cresswell, The Flatliners
I remember seeing a big punk band at the Troc in Philly in like, 1995 or something, and getting Doc Martens in the face every 30 to 40 seconds. Seriously, it was like my face was MISSILE STRIKE ZONE. I was 17 or something and that show still sort of annoys me 20 years later. On the other hand... I went to the Don Giovanni showcase in February 2013 at Music Hall of Williamsburg and people were stagediving all over the place, but it felt respectful and caring and like people were looking out for each other, rather than trying to kick people in the head.
The first example I gave—it felt like people were trying to be macho assholes and trying to hurt each other that night. And it sucked.
The second example—the crowd was really receptive to what was going on and making sure everyone was safe, and it felt like a caring group of friends who were all just TOTALLY INTO what was going on. And it ruled.
I think that in situation number one, the band does need to take responsibilty if it looks like people are in danger of getting hurt. But I feel like stagediving is one of the things that can make a punk show chaotic and energetic and fucking FUN. But SERIOUSLY, it's important to do it respectfully. You have to realize that this is a thing that can infringe on the personal spaces of others who might not welcome that kind of thing. Really just OPEN YOUR EYES and give a fuck about people around you, and be safe and help others be safe as much as you can.
—Sue Werner, War on Women
Of course stagediving is OK, and is often an amazing release of energy and expression and a way for a band and crowd to be as one, breaking down all barriers of the rock attitude of band on stage and crowd down below them. Bands don't want kids to get hurts at their shows, I sure don't. So I do think bands do have some responsibility to keep their eye on the show and keep it clean but in the midst of the intensity, sometimes people do get some bumps and bruises and that's OK too. I think scenes police themselves too. I take a huge sense of pride in the hardcore scene and feel connected to most kids that come to hardcore shows and want it to be a positive atmosphere. I've seen many appropriate stagedives at Hot Water Music shows and inappropriate dives at Terror shows. Use some common sense, don't hurt each other, but also fell free to express yourself and vibe out to music the way only you know how.
"I'll tell you stagedives make me feel more alive than coded messages in slowed down songs." - Gorilla Biscuits
—Scott Vogel, Terror
I always felt as if the ideals of the music side of punk rock were that we can and will police ourselves. I believe that the members of any "punk" community—musician, artist, etc. and any one else in the room are on the hook to call out any bullshit that doesn't fit in the scope of said community.
Specifically to stagediving. I feel like people should be free to have the best possible time that they can have at these events. Stagediving was/is kinda the bread and butter of the newer punk/hardcore scene. It's always been humorous to me that bands like Tigers Jaw, Title Fight, and Joyce Manor have incited a whole new generation of "headwalker.” (Especially when it happens on their slowest of jams...) I love those bands. I love the scenes that they have created around themselves. But I sometimes see a disconnect with their sonics and how aggressive the audience at their shows can be.
Anti-Flag has always stopped shows and called out any actions that we felt to be not within the ideals of the community we saw our band being a part of. There is no place for sexism, bigotry, racism, homophobia, or machismo in a music community trying to challenge the status quo. Those things are the status quo, we need to hold ourselves higher than them.
We are not public servants. We are four flawed people in a punk rock band. Are we the most articulate when challenging these things from stage? No. But we care. I think that is the place Barry was coming from with this whole thing. Think about more than just yourself. There are a ton of shows where that type of interaction is welcome. Find that space if that's what you're looking for.
It gets more difficult to manage this as the community grows. Shows in basements, you are sure all the folks there are on your team. Shows in bigger clubs are difficult. I don't agree with the politics of every (or maybe any) security guards that have worked any of the bigger shows we've played. But I always rely on the fact that we have microphones. And if something happens at the show, we can at least believe that we are there to speak on the behalf of the things we know the four of us stand for. We take solace in the fact that we are a part of a community that cares more about the whole than the individual.
—Chris #2, Anti-Flag
Stagediving is definitely OK by me. I used to do it until I got too big, stopped standing in front when I got too old, and enjoy watching people do it while I play shows. Even though it's an odd tradition, I think it's a unique and subversive element to punk and hardcore shows. If you go to one of these shows and stand up front, you know the risk and, to me, are partially accountable for whatever happens. As long as there is no malicious intent, I'm up for it.
That being said, if a band clearly states the way they want their show to operate, I feel it's totally within their rights to demand it. If you're aware of their "policy" and think it sucks that much, stop going. The crowd should police themselves, but I can understand a band wanting to create a more welcoming and peaceful environment for their show, if that's their thing.
—Benny Horowitz, The Gaslight Anthem
The band on stage is not "in charge." The crowd is not "in charge." What we have is this miracle of mutual cooperation and self-policing at shows: a natural accident of our own countercultural values and traditions, for better or worse. So naturally, any punk show comes riddled with every do and don't a random crowd of people could happen upon. The band can't dictate to the crowd and expect them to march in lock-step, and vice-versa. There's a give-and-take, and creating a safe space is on everyone: the band, the crowd, the venue.
I personally love the role of stagediving at shows. It's a reminder that the show is not about the band, but about a community expressing itself. At its worst, stagediving is certainly not an inherently evil institution. Most physical contact is incidental. If someone falls, someone else picks her/him up. But no matter how you slice it, punk is not safe like going to see a church choir is safe. It's just not. The sweaty pile of humanity we call a punk show is not mom and dad's idea of good, clean fun.
And hey, in this age of evermore-corporatized underground music, we can easily eliminate danger at shows. We can tell kids to stay put. We can have barriers. We can have seating. We can have shitty nightclub bouncers who will wrestle and beat some 16-year-old kid to the ground for stagediving. We can sanitize the show experience until it resembles almost nothing of what drew many of us to it in the first place.
—Chris "Cmar" Martin, Hostage Calm
I had seen Slayer play where a dude walked out with a broken radius bone and blood coming out of his eye socket. The guy didn't care. I also have been see Downcast play where they made everyone sit down so people would not mosh. So I have seen both side of the spectrum when it comes to certain types of music. But then I think of the drone strikes in the Middle East and their civilian casualties or even closer to home, unarmed younger people of color who are gunned down by the pigs. I could care less what people do when they hear music. And I really don't care about a band's "troubles on their tour.”
—Justin Pearson, The Locust, RETOX, Three One G Records