McGregor In Reverse: Boxer Heather Hardy Ready for MMA Debut
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McGregor In Reverse: Boxer Heather Hardy Ready for MMA Debut

After building a 20-0 as a boxer, Brooklyn mainstay Heather Hardy is ready to make her MMA debut at Bellator 180 on Saturday.

Heather Hardy is synonymous with New York's boxing scene.

The 20-0 WBC international featherweight champion is from Brooklyn's Gerritsen Beach, she trains aspiring boxers at the legendary Gleason's Gym in DUMBO, and as a professional boxer, she's built a reputation for selling tickets at nearly all of the city's venues: Coney Island's Ford Amphitheater, B.B. King Blues Club in Times Square, the Roseland Ballroom, and the massive Barclays Center, just to name a few.

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Until now, the only notable exception was arguably the world's most famous arena and boxing's Mecca: Madison Square Garden.

The good news is that Hardy will cross MSG off her "to-do" list on Saturday night. The catch is that at 35, the single mother and veteran pugilist will do so by making her mixed martial arts debut in a flyweight match against Alice Yauger (4-5) at Bellator 180.

In moving from boxing to MMA, Hardy didn't exactly become the Neil Armstrong of combat sport crossovers. Holly Holm was famously the first athlete to win titles in both sports. And at the opposite end of the spectrum, UFC superstar Conor McGregor is preparing to make his boxing debut on Aug. 26 against Floyd Mayweather, an undefeated legend and heavy, heavy favorite.

And like McGregor, who's under contract with the UFC and needed president Dana White's go-ahead before finalizing any deal with Mayweather, Hardy had her own red tape and needed approval from notorious boxing promoter Lou DiBella.

DiBella was reluctant at first, but politics helped to force his hand.

When New York became the last state to legalize professional MMA in 2016, the new law came with a major caveat: For every athlete competing in a combat sport, promoters were required to provide $1 million of insurance covering any potential life-threatening brain injury. (In 2013, Russian boxer Magomed Abdusalamov suffered a significant brain injury during a fight at MSG, and his subsequent lawsuit is believed by many to be the impetus for the steep insurance requirement in New York's MMA Law).

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Not only did the new law effectively make boxing cost prohibitive at the club level, but such an insurance policy did not exist for boxing. That put New York's boxing industry on hiatus for four-and-a-half months before the proper policies were approved.

Without her usual boxing purses, Hardy signed with Invicta FC and planned on making her MMA debut in January before her opponent pulled out because of injury.

Since then, Hardy won a pair of boxing matches against Edina Kiss, including one at LIU's Paramount Theater, which was the first club-level fight card since last September. Following that unanimous decision, Hardy announced that she would fight Yauger at Bellator 180 with the blessing of DiBella and help from her new trainer, jiu-jitsu black belt and MMA fighter Daniel Gracie.

The following is an interview with Hardy in which she discusses boxing, MMA, the business of both sports, and Conor McGregor's (non-existent) chances against Floyd Mayweather.

Fightland: How did you first get the idea to try MMA in your 30s?
Heather Hardy: Last year [June 25, 2016], I was 15-0 and I was boxing on the undercard of [Keith Thurman-Shawn Porter's fight on CBS]. I was boxing the girl that was ranked No. 2 [Kirstie Simmons]. I had the perfect argument to be put on TV. I lobbied and lobbied and did all the things. At the time, I was being sponsored by Dove, I was in the commercial campaign; so much stuff was happening; 15-0. And they wouldn't do it. I was passed over by a guy who was like 2-0. And I just felt so defeated. I was doing all the things I was supposed to do and it still wasn't enough. So I thought I needed a backup plan. That summer I started wrestling. Soon after I started wrestling and posting on my social media, [Premiere Boxing Champions] did my fight [against Shelly Vincent] on NBC Sports.

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So boxing was starting to take a good turn, but at the same time, I was already doing the jiu-jitsu and thinking, 'man, I'm OK at this.' And then we had the insurance issues in New York, where there were no boxing for six months, so it was the perfect time to get Lou [DiBella] to say that I can do a fight. Then that Invicta fight fell through and I was so disappointed. The girl pulled out the day before the way in. It sucked.

DiBella didn't have to say 'yes' to you?
Yeah, I'm really grateful for that. I had to kind of go up to him like when you're asking your dad for money when you know he has none. I was like, 'Please, please,' and I know he's not a big fan of MMA. And why in the world would he want to let me go into another combat sport, where I could potentially get injured? So it was a big thing for him to allow me to do this.

So you went from wrestling to jiu-jitsu.
I started American wrestling. I had kick boxed before I boxed, so I'm kinda familiar with kickboxing. And getting back into that hasn't been so difficult. I transitioned from wrestling into jiu-jitsu, and now training I'm with Daniel Gracie.

What's the biggest challenge of this transition?
They can pick me up and throw me on the floor. That's really not OK with boxing (laughs).

The biggest challenge is that the tricks you can use in boxing don't work in MMA because people can pick you up and throw you on the floor. You could do a little shoulder bump or lean on your opponent if you're tired or tuck a little on the inside to bully them.

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Too many punches at once and you wind up on your back.

In MMA, you're not doing such complicated combinations, right?
My MMA coaches are telling me that, "Don't think more than two punches at a time," and if you stand still, someone is gonna look to tie you up.

In boxing, if someone ties you up, the ref breaks it up. In MMA, so much can happen: elbows can get thrown, knee kicks can get thrown. It's dangerous when you get close. They tell you, "Strike and get out; strike and get out."

Is your MMA strategy similar to your boxing strategy?
I wish I could say that it is, but my boxing style is being more of a volume puncher. I'm an aggressive puncher. The challenge for me has been to try and add movement to stick and move instead of just stick and stick and stick.

Without any corners in the Octagon, does your footwork have to change?
There's no corners, but there's also no gives. With the ropes [in boxing] you can push back on the ropes, you can get a couple of extra inches to move out of the way of a punch. You can work off the ropes.

The cage hurts. You don't want your back on the cage ever. And so many different things, like takedowns in jiu-jitsu and strikes can happen up against that cage. It's not where you wanna be.

But an official MMA cage is almost twice the size of a boxing ring, so I almost feel like I'm fighting someone in my back yard.

With that much space, is it easier to evade an opponent?
No, because in boxing, when you get away, you only have to get away from two hands. In this, you're getting away from throws, kicks, knees, elbows, fists. Getting away really entails a lot.

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Some see boxing as being more of a skill and MMA being more like a street fight. Is that what you've found?
There are very few things you can't do in MMA. You can't poke someone in the eye; you can't bite anybody. It's not a vicious street fight. What I've been telling people for years—and as a boxing fan, you know—you tell people that boxing is a skilled sport. When you watch two people box, it can be like watching two people dance when they're doing it right. It's a beautiful art.

The same can be said for jiu-jitsu, for wrestling, and for all those things that the common, untrained eye may see as just people rolling around on the floor trying to maul each other. Actual beautiful transitions are happening if you know what to look for.

Is it like a street fight? Much more like a street fight than boxing. You can crack your elbow on someone's face after you knock them on the floor. But there's certainly skill involved.

Was jiu-jitsu a good way to transition into MMA?
I think that it's important to know what I'm allowed to do, but what my opponent is capable of doing. So I felt like I needed try all of the martial arts just to see what's out there. My coaches might say, "We're gonna work on this drill; you'll never do this in a fight and I never want to see you do this in a fight." But I need to be aware of what can be done to me.

How does the length of the fight compare?
Three five-minute rounds.

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Does it feel shorter? Longer?
Usually I do 10 rounds, but I'd do 10 two-minute rounds. This is a tremendous difference.

Is this more like a marathon?
It's like sprinting a marathon is more like it.

How have you responded physically?
Getting the grappling stamina that's required and the muscles used has been challenging. But I've been sparring five-minute rounds. We did all the work to prepare.

Did anyone warn you against doing MMA?
Well, we had a little of that from Lou in the beginning. Outside of him being a scared dad, no. My team and I are always on the same page. Some of my boxing coaches, some of the old-school guys at Gleason's [Gym in Brooklyn] were like, "What are you doing? What's wrong with you?"

You've said you're not leaving boxing. If you immediately have MMA success, would you turn your attention to that?
I don't know that I won't turn my attention to it anyway. I plan on having a lot of success in this field. I'm hooked now. I had my training camp, and about halfway through training camp, something clicked. The green light went on and I was like, "Oh my God, I love this now." I'm really enjoying this.

What clicked?
One day I was training and I was trying so hard to do something with the jiu-jitsu and one of my coaches said, "Stop thinking so much; just do what you would naturally do." All of the sudden, everything got easier.

It was just a common takedown defense drill. Someone slams you up against the cage: how do you stay on your feet? I was trying to do all the technical steps: You hit your overhook or your underhook; your hips have to turn; drop your waste.

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I'd be like, "Oh, I forgot to do this! Oh, I forgot to do this!"

The coach was just like, "Stop it. Don't let her get you on the floor. How about we think about that instead of the ten things you're supposed to do?"

Once I started thinking like that, it was like, "Oh duh, it's like a fight." It's not a recipe. I'm not baking a cake.

You have to defend more of your body now besides your head and torso. Is that a problem?
There are two ways to think about it: More body to defend, or more opportunities to strike.

If you go into boxing and think, "She can do this; she can do that; this can happen to me," that changes your game. My focus is just to stay out of the way and do as much damage as I can when I'm in the zone.

Were you an MMA fan before this?
No, but in all fairness, I wasn't a boxing fan either. I grew to appreciate it through doing the sport.

How are you finding the business side of this?
It's just different. The business side of anything is just difficult. People keep asking me, "Are you so nervous; it's fight week?" And fight week is fight week. It's business week as a fighter. I gotta close out tickets; I gotta finish making my weight; I gotta see who didn't get T-shirts. I have so much stuff to do, and that doesn't change. This is the same kind of business.

If anything, Bellator is more corporate then boxing. Boxing isn't very corporate. So now I'm finding I'm dealing with lots of different departments to get stuff done and figuring out who to direct questions to. The fundamentals are the same.

Were it not for the insurance issue, would you have just stayed in boxing full time?
No, my coach is a three-time world champion. The transition to MMA was always something that was hanging there. He always told me you have to get great at something first. We can't come out of the Golden Gloves and just go into MMA. You have to get great at your boxing.

Not to say that I'm great at boxing, but I'm certainly above skill level against most of the [MMA] competition in terms of boxing. I feel really comfortable making the transition now because of the level I go to in boxing.

Did you scout your opponent?
I don't watch video. I leave that to the coaches and let them tell me how to train. You can get so preoccupied with what you see on tape. You don't know how someone is gonna react to you. So I don't like to overplan as much as just being prepared.

You're a boxing expert and you're becoming an MMA fighter: Does McGregor stand a chance against Mayweather?
No way does McGregor beat Mayweather in a boxing ring. No way does Mayweather beat McGregor in a cage… Anyone on the planet who thinks that McGregor has a chance does not appreciate the science of boxing.

I don't know that [McGregor will] land one [punch]. I've done sparring sessions where no one hit me, and I'm nowhere near Floyd Mayweather.