John Waters Talks Villains, Violence and Partying with the Hells Angels

For me, the thrill of motorcycles was captured best by the 1963 short film, Scorpio Rising; a movie which filled my head with dreams of chrome, V-twin engines, and leather jackets. The film also had a huge influence on cult filmmaker John Waters: “You have to remember the police used to raid and arrest the audience for seeing Scorpio Rising,” he told Interview magazine in 2014.

John Waters had screened his early 1970s films in the Unitarian church in Baltimore, where as he told Esquire, “The audiences that came were rambunctious radicals within their minority groups. It wasn't all gays. Some bikers used to come.”

In this way, John Waters spent his earlier years partying in bars owned by the Hells Angels, and living with artists, punks and activists on the fringes. In this period outlaw bikers such as the Hells Angels were rejecting any semblance of civilized decorum with bruised knuckles. At the time, the hippie movement, women’s movement and the civil rights movements were all attempting to hold power and social constructs to question. It was the first time that counterculture had became mainstream, and for many, director John Waters was the dark lord of that ecosystem.

Released in 1972, Waters’ film Pink Flamingos, offered a celluloid vision of sexual decadence that buckled even the most free spirited. His mind’s eye offered us a portal into a new frontier; the singing anus, scenes of ritualistic cop-killing, incest, KKK celebrants and a sex scene that involved a chicken being molested and then killed. Somehow, it seemed Waters had an uncanny ability to turn trash into high-art.

Now, half a century later, Waters has released a memoir titled Mr Know-It-All: The Tarnished Wisdom of Filth Elder, and is launching the book in Australia with a one-man-show titled Make Trouble. As an ex-biker myself, I wanted to dig into his mind about how motorcycles fit into his perverse universe, so we got on the phone to talk about it.

VICE: As an ex-biker myself, I am keen to hear about your parties with the Hells Angels.
John Waters: There used to be this bar in Baltimore in this blue collar neighbourhood, and it was two levels. Upstairs was all the right kind of guys who dressed as black rappers like Eminem types. And then downstairs was the Hells Angels. I knew both crowds, and I had met the Hells Angels because we hung around the bar, where I made A Dirty Shame, called the Holiday House that was a biker bar. They had axes on the wall, and I said what are they for? And they said, “John, just in case.”

I've always got along with bikers. The funniest thing was that next to the bar where the bikers hung out was a store that sold basically biker outfits. But the irony was the shoppers were two kinds of people, gay men from leather bars and real bikers who wore the same outfits.

That doesn't surprise me.
They shopped together but ignored each other.

How did you first meet them, and what was that first experience like going to their clubhouse?
Well going to the clubhouse was later in the Hells Angels because in Baltimore the biggest group were the Fat Bros and The Pagans, and they were at war with each other.I knew a lot of The Pagans, they used to take me to their clubhouse. I would go in, and it was so Scorpio Rising. They would say to me, “John any girls that you want? There's gym mats upstairs, just pick one.” They knew I was totally gay, they just said it to make me laugh.

But they always accepted me, and they were always great to me. When one guy died, my sister in law made a huge flower arrangement with a skull. After that they really liked me. I was fascinated. I like any subculture that I technically can't get in. I'm very interested in what it's like. They were outlaws, so I kept with them.

Were you drawn to the theatricality of it all?
I think I first got into it because I remember seeing Hells Angels kissing each other to freak people out, which I thought was hilarious. Remember when they used to do that?

Yeah those photos still go viral.
That was so radical. So that is what originally probably attracted me to them. It’s that they liked to just fuck with everybody's perceptions of what anybody should be. Then I got friendly with different ones. I still have a Hells Angels calendar that annual one they put out, they send me it and I keep my movie diary on that.

Your movie diaries are in The Hells Angels calendar?
Yes. I always write to the person who sends me the calendar, to let them know who looks the best.

Tell me about the wildest party you've ever been to?
The wildest party I've ever been to was in San Francisco. It was in someone's house, I don't know who, but a girl took a shit on the stage, then they set the house on fire and everybody ran out. That was probably about 1970. It was so punk… way before punk.

How much of an influence was Scorpio Rising to you? Do you remember the first time you saw it? And where did you see it?
Oh yes. I think the biggest influence of that movie was the music. The ironic use of pop music, which Kenneth Anger seemed to do first. I think that was a huge influence on me. And yes, the fact that it was … Was it gay? Was it weird? What was it?

You know, and the beautiful colours. It was just a completely signature look of an underground movie, which was one of the first ones I ever saw. So it stuck with me forever. Same reason I loved demolition derbies, it's the same type. I like men that are demolition derby drivers, they are usually my type. Do they have demolition derbies in Australia?

They are not as big here.
It is a lowbrow event.

I think it might be even a bit too lowbrow for our backwards culture. I like the proximity to violence though.
I am not a violent person. I have never been in a fist fight in my life, and the reason is probably because I'd lose. I always wondered if I was good at fighting, would I have fought? I don't know.

Actually, I am in a group called Gays Against Guns, “GAG” which I think is hilarious. I even say that on Johnny Depp's new record, you hear me say that in the beginning. But when I used to go to the [biker] bar and there'd be fights it would be like a Western. I would be sitting there, and suddenly tables would be flying. I was excited by that. I thought “Wow this is like being in an American Western this is fun.” I wasn't violent but it was sort of amazing to see the bikers fight.

I saw a documentary about your life, and I think your mum says that you were infatuated by violence when you were young.
Well, car accidents—not violence—car accidents. She used to take me to junkyards where I would walk through it, and look at wrecked cars and imagine the horror. Something was the matter with me. I did turn that into a career.

She also mentions that you often rooted for the villain.
They weren't the villain to me, but I rooted for them. I think all my movies the hero or heroines are what would be thought of as the villains in regular people's movies. The villains are the heroines in my movies, and they always win.

I always wanted the Wicked Witch to win in The Wizard of Oz. Why would Dorothy want to go back to that stupid farm with those smelly animals, when she could live with monkeys and magic shoes? I never understood it. I always liked Cinderella's step sisters more than Cinderella. I always like the villain because they dress better, and they had more memorable dialogue.

It's the same way in high school. I liked the bad kids. The good kids that were the honour roll kids. Once they graduated from high school that was the high point of their life. From then on it was downhill. Where the bad kids are usually the ones that ended up being interesting later in life. They went two ways, they ended up in prison or they ended up very successful in an original way.

I love your phrase "crime as beauty.”
Well that was a comment that I made in Female Trouble. I think it came from Jean Genet who wrote about that kind of thing. I love that in the height of Jean Genet's career, society people would invite him to parties and they would be really happy if he stole something from their house. It was like a compliment, which I think is hilarious.

What do you make of the world's most famous villain today?
They are all hairdo monsters. We've got the one in England, the guy in North Korea and we've got Trump. It's like the three stooges…hairdo idiocy. So what do I make of them? I talk a lot about that in the show, so fairly, I think that he probably shaves his asshole.

So he's essentially made the villain unfashionable ?
Well, I don't think of him as a villain. I think of him as a fool. Well he's not a fool because he's gonna win again. Unfortunately because we don't have anybody good running against him. There's nobody having any fun, he's having fun being an asshole.

Mr. Waters, thank you.

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John Waters: Make Trouble
Tuesday 15 October, Sydney Opera House
Wednesday 16 October, Brisbane Powerhouse
Friday 18 October, Melbourne Hamer Hall Arts Centre
Saturday 19 October, Hobart MONA