You see that doc, 13th? The film is really good, up for an Oscar, and on Netflix—so you have no excuse but to check it out. It explores the mass incarceration epidemic that plagues the United States, a country that has 5 percent of the world's population and almost 25 percent of its prisoners.With America's massive prison population, there's also a demand for people to guard its prisoners. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics says there are almost half a million correctional officers in the US as of 2014, and that figure is projected to grow. Despite all the correctional officers out there, you law-abiding citizens may never have had a chance to meet one in the wild. So I spoke with Dwayne Harris, the deputy sheriff to the Fulton County Sheriff Department, to see if the life of a guard is anything like what we see in shows like Orange Is the New Black.
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This interview has been edited for length and clarity.VICE: Have you ever developed a friendship with any of the inmates?
Dwayne Harris: Well, I worked with the state prison system and for a county jail now. If you're around anybody for a long enough period of time, you're gonna find some kinda bond or relationship with them. I wouldn't call that a friendship. But they're just people like we are. Only difference between us is they're locked up. They hurt just like we do. They're there 24 hours a day; we're there eight.You gotta get a bond with your people—in and out of the cell—to know who's good and who to watch out for. And the orderly will tell you who to watch for. What do shows and films about jail get wrong and right about prison life?
The only one I can think of that I seen is on HBO from forever ago… Oz! Now, Oz is kinda close to being right. Most of the people in the place where I work at, in the inner city of Atlanta, most of them guys went to school with the guys who work there. That's the biggest problem there. They were friends before they were inmates and employees. We have a lot of people get caught up cause they are still friends with the inmates.Has the job affected your prejudices in any way?
Somewhat. When I was down south in Georgia, things were a bit more laid back. Up in the city, these guys are more violent.I say it's like a chemical unbalance with them. When crack was serious, in the 80s, the kids born there—they are all in the jailhouse now. Seventeen on up. Either one of their parents was on drugs or both of them were on drugs, and these are the withdrawals we have with these kids and the off balance they have. When I came up here from a small town in south Georgia, I saw how bad the crack epidemic was and just couldn't believe it. I got here in 2003 and, oh my God, it really did hit me because I hadn't seen much else. Got these 14- to 24-year-olds in jail now, coming in and out, in and out. And they've got real violent, violent crimes. What's the most depressing thing you've seen at work?
Well, I worked in the courthouse watching inmates, and they've got these babies being killed by the mother and the boyfriend, not the father of the child. And that's really bad. About the baddest thing I have ever seen. It's rough. At the courthouse, they show the body, the autopsy, the pictures, and everything and you can't take that image away. That kinda takes you to another level with it.
Dwayne Harris: Well, I worked with the state prison system and for a county jail now. If you're around anybody for a long enough period of time, you're gonna find some kinda bond or relationship with them. I wouldn't call that a friendship. But they're just people like we are. Only difference between us is they're locked up. They hurt just like we do. They're there 24 hours a day; we're there eight.You gotta get a bond with your people—in and out of the cell—to know who's good and who to watch out for. And the orderly will tell you who to watch for. What do shows and films about jail get wrong and right about prison life?
The only one I can think of that I seen is on HBO from forever ago… Oz! Now, Oz is kinda close to being right. Most of the people in the place where I work at, in the inner city of Atlanta, most of them guys went to school with the guys who work there. That's the biggest problem there. They were friends before they were inmates and employees. We have a lot of people get caught up cause they are still friends with the inmates.Has the job affected your prejudices in any way?
Somewhat. When I was down south in Georgia, things were a bit more laid back. Up in the city, these guys are more violent.I say it's like a chemical unbalance with them. When crack was serious, in the 80s, the kids born there—they are all in the jailhouse now. Seventeen on up. Either one of their parents was on drugs or both of them were on drugs, and these are the withdrawals we have with these kids and the off balance they have. When I came up here from a small town in south Georgia, I saw how bad the crack epidemic was and just couldn't believe it. I got here in 2003 and, oh my God, it really did hit me because I hadn't seen much else. Got these 14- to 24-year-olds in jail now, coming in and out, in and out. And they've got real violent, violent crimes. What's the most depressing thing you've seen at work?
Well, I worked in the courthouse watching inmates, and they've got these babies being killed by the mother and the boyfriend, not the father of the child. And that's really bad. About the baddest thing I have ever seen. It's rough. At the courthouse, they show the body, the autopsy, the pictures, and everything and you can't take that image away. That kinda takes you to another level with it.
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What's the funniest thing that's happened at work?
My job consists of taking inmates to funerals sometimes, and when we do that, I gotta search the casket to make sure they're not putting weapons in there or anything from the family members. And when I do that, they play all kind of tricks on me 'cause I gotta search the whole casket and everything. And they'll get behind me and make a sound or [act] like the body's gonna move.What sort of interesting currencies have you seen inmates using?
What they do like is snacks. They buy their commissary [items] on Friday, get it on Saturday, and then gamble all night with it. Honeybuns, stamps, all that. They don't have money on the books, so that's how they do.Do the inmates ever do anything that you can't help but be impressed by?
If you see some of the crimes they do, especially with the credit cards. Anything to do with a computer, they're a genius. But they won't use it for the better good, just the bad stuff. But the way they do it is genius, to be honest with you. If they only used their minds to do something good… you'd be surprised what you can do. We have very smart people in prisons now.You know that Atlanta child murderer, Wayne Williams? He does the computers now inside the state prison. Any problem they have with a computer, he fixes it. What's the worst injury you've had or witnessed on the job?
I had to break up a fight once and pulled a muscle in my back, but that's pretty much it. Not that bad, but you're sore for about four weeks after that. We had one employee inside the zone, and he brought a guy to medical, and they had a coffee pot in there, and the guy hit the officer on top of the head and split it right open. That's about the worst I've seen. It truly should have never been in there. Split his head wide open.What do you fundamentally disagree with about how prison works in America?
I think they make it too easy for us. I don't know why [the prisoners] like coming there [to prison].For instance, our jail holds about 2,400, and we have 3,000 there. This is how they do it. Wintertime, all the homeless get arrested, so they won't be cold. Then, come summertime, they wanna get out, so they can roam the street and don't have to worry about the dang weather.What are the politics of most prison guards? Are people psyched about Trump? Expecting less federal scrutiny?
Everybody is scared of Trump. Everybody is scared of him, talking about taking us back in time. They're not looking at the bigger picture. The average guard and the average inmate are scared of him.Follow Justin Caffier on Twitter.
My job consists of taking inmates to funerals sometimes, and when we do that, I gotta search the casket to make sure they're not putting weapons in there or anything from the family members. And when I do that, they play all kind of tricks on me 'cause I gotta search the whole casket and everything. And they'll get behind me and make a sound or [act] like the body's gonna move.What sort of interesting currencies have you seen inmates using?
What they do like is snacks. They buy their commissary [items] on Friday, get it on Saturday, and then gamble all night with it. Honeybuns, stamps, all that. They don't have money on the books, so that's how they do.Do the inmates ever do anything that you can't help but be impressed by?
If you see some of the crimes they do, especially with the credit cards. Anything to do with a computer, they're a genius. But they won't use it for the better good, just the bad stuff. But the way they do it is genius, to be honest with you. If they only used their minds to do something good… you'd be surprised what you can do. We have very smart people in prisons now.You know that Atlanta child murderer, Wayne Williams? He does the computers now inside the state prison. Any problem they have with a computer, he fixes it. What's the worst injury you've had or witnessed on the job?
I had to break up a fight once and pulled a muscle in my back, but that's pretty much it. Not that bad, but you're sore for about four weeks after that. We had one employee inside the zone, and he brought a guy to medical, and they had a coffee pot in there, and the guy hit the officer on top of the head and split it right open. That's about the worst I've seen. It truly should have never been in there. Split his head wide open.What do you fundamentally disagree with about how prison works in America?
I think they make it too easy for us. I don't know why [the prisoners] like coming there [to prison].For instance, our jail holds about 2,400, and we have 3,000 there. This is how they do it. Wintertime, all the homeless get arrested, so they won't be cold. Then, come summertime, they wanna get out, so they can roam the street and don't have to worry about the dang weather.What are the politics of most prison guards? Are people psyched about Trump? Expecting less federal scrutiny?
Everybody is scared of Trump. Everybody is scared of him, talking about taking us back in time. They're not looking at the bigger picture. The average guard and the average inmate are scared of him.Follow Justin Caffier on Twitter.