Elmore Leonard Is the Man

Photos by Richard Kern

Road Dogs

Vice: I just finished Road Dogs last night. I read it straight through. It took about ten hours.

Elmore Leonard:

I really like the way you set up these situations that seem like they’re going to be traditional thriller devices, but then you explode them almost immediately. Like when Jack Foley first arrives in California and meets Dawn Navarro, there’s already been this tension set up of whether they’ll have sex or not.

And in someone else’s book, that would be stretched out for a long time. But you cut right to the chase and have them in bed together at their first meeting.

It seemed very real the way you wrote it.

Yeah, he’s not about to wait. And then there’s the character of Danialle, when Jack and Dawn are supposed to be running this con on her. I expected that to be a long, suspenseful thread through the entire book but, bang, a few pages later you have her saying that she knew it was all a hoax and that she didn’t mind.

Oh, so Danialle Karmanos is named after a real person? That’s funny.

Yeah, that character is a corpse!

laughs

Do you let them know what their role in the book is going to be, or do they just find out when it’s released?

I’ve heard about how you start with characters rather than with plot.

La Brava

I figured he was dead at the end of La Brava.

I guess so. Do you do character sketches or do you just drop them straight into situations?

Out of Sight

It seems to me like it’s begging to be a movie.

Literally making it up as you go along. Is that a process you developed over the course of your career, or has it always been that way for you?

Does it ever feel like a high-wire act, not knowing where you’re going to go?

It must be fun for you, since you’re always writing.

Djibouti

Wow.

Katrina

So this character in your new book is based on this documentary filmmaker?

She’s a totally fictitious character? The way you’re referring to her, I would have thought she was a real person.

That’s great.

Yeah, that was incredible shooting.

But three head shots from a huge boat bobbing in the sea to a small life raft in the dark… it’s pretty impressive, gyroscope or not.

I kind of love those pirates.

And your main character feels for them.

Trying to talk them out of the path they’ve chosen.

It’s really interesting how you’re talking about the book that you’re writing now, but it sounds like you’re just telling me about real people that you know. You’re like, “I think he’s a Saudi.”

Road Dogs

Your pace is incredible.

It’s just what you do.

A lot of writers will do something like three books in ten years—or even less.

Instead of working. So one of my favorite scenes in Road Dogs is when Little Jimmy goes to confession. It’s hilarious, with great comedic timing. And then at the end he says, “Anything I did to get God pissed off at me is forgiven,” because he said ten Hail Marys and ten Our Fathers. You were raised Catholic. Does that reflect the way that you feel about it too?

Sometimes you kind of want to go in there and see if you can get 20 or something.

laughs

And AA is quasi-religious.

Right.

Do you still attend meetings?

I’ve heard that very story more than a couple of times in AA meetings.

laughs

Dramatic re-creation? Just kidding.

How do you feel about the cliché of all writers being drunks?

The solitude seems to get to some people.

I don’t meet many people your age who still smoke.

laughs

Everybody has to have something. If it’s going to be cigarettes, so be it. Are there any of your characters who you personally identify with more than others?

That’s one of your 10 Rules of Writing, correct? Don’t overdescribe characters.

Right. I like your first rule: Never open with a description of the weather.

And if it sounds like writing—

I do. Can you tell me what’s so interesting to you about criminals?

And you wrote Westerns when they were popular.

3:10 to Yuma

Do you get anything from the movies?

The ending of the remake was pretty different from your story. Does that make you unhappy?

That was insane.

Running alongside the train. Are there any new upcoming adaptations of your work?

Interesting.

How hard can it be? Who is playing Givens this time around?

Timothy Olyphant. He was on the HBO series Deadwood. He’s really good. I hope they get the hat right this time.

You’re probably tired of hearing about how great your dialogue is, but I’m just going to say it here once more because it really is the best.

It’s perfect. “Fuck.” Do you speak your dialogue out loud while you’re writing it?

Do you have a particular place where you like to write?

Longhand?

That takes some serious dedication.

Oh my God.

For the first three months you’d just smack the snooze button.

You’ve employed a researcher for a while now.

Is Greg working on the Somalian-pirate book now?

And it’s become a huge story since then.

Is Greg also the person who’s responsible for helping you to keep up with gang and criminal lingo?

Do you stay in contact with any of the criminals who figure into your research?

And that line leads to something.

Sure, personal use. Are you friends with any ex-cons?

laughs

That’s a lot of scrap metal.

You guys are pen pals?

Sub-versive. Ha.

So stealing the submarine would have been a statement of some sort.

What do you think of the distinction in the publishing industry between genre writing and so-called literature?

Charlie Rose

Amis has been a big champion of your work.

I agree with you that serious writing can be boring.

But I don’t take it at face value. I know what you mean.

City Primeval

It’s such a commitment for a writer to do a series like that, like the Bourne books or all the Pelecanos books with recurring characters. It’s like a relationship.

“I’m starting to hate this fucking guy.”

He had a cosmic reprieve from Travis McGee. There’s a funny part in Road Dogs where Lou tells Jack Foley, “The publishing business isn’t about writing. It’s about selling books.”

laughs

Times

Unknown Man #89

Times

That’s ridiculous.

Who doesn’t even write his own books…

Let’s be realistic, though. You have a lot of very dedicated fans. If it’s the kind of writing that’s meant for a certain reader, they can’t just read one Elmore Leonard book and then stop.

You’ve said a lot of times that your first big inspiration was Hemingway.

For Whom the Bell Tolls

It’s true. Hemingway is not known for his laughs.

The Pajama Game, right?

7 1/2 Cents

Pajama Game.

It is.

It’s really good.

It’s similar to the line that comes up a couple of times in Out of Sight from Three Days of the Condor—that kind of pithy bedroom talk.

Detroit has been a big part of your life. You’ve lived there since you were young and you’ve set many of your books there. What is it like for you to witness its decline? There’s so much unemployment there, and the car industry is dying.

When was this?

But then you bought a house and there goes that.

Encyclopædia Britannica

Like educational films for schools?

I wonder if I saw any of those in elementary school. They were definitely still showing us film strips from the 60s when I was in school in the early 80s. Could you just crank those out?

Did any of that stuff ever lead to ideas for stories?

laughs

I just want to talk a little bit about other writers. You’re the top of the crime genre. Who do you think is carrying on the tradition for a younger generation?

Road Dogs

How could he not be?

Do you pay much attention to your reviews?

It’s not you, it’s your characters.

Road Dogs

I didn’t see it coming in quite that way. But wait, do you want me to leave that detail out of the interview? Do you care if big plot points are spoiled for potential readers?

From a Walther with a silencer across a table at point-blank range?

laughs

You got a really good review in the New York Times for this one.

You mentioned how Lehane blurbed your new book. That reminded me of how you blurbed some of the books of Charles Willeford, one of the best and most underappreciated crime novelists. Do you have any memories of him?

The Friends of Eddie Coyle

I haven’t. Should I?

A good plan.

What did you think of that?

Was Higgins an underappreciated writer too, like Willeford?

Times

I would have thought he would have been by now.

So do you like his writing?

I do too, but it seems like in a lot of ways he’s the opposite of what you write and talk about liking. His language is usually very dense and artful rather than terse and direct. Like in Blood Meridian, for example.

Blood Meridian

You definitely should! I have a question here that I have to ask for my father-in-law. You’re his favorite writer. He calls you “the man.” He was in love with Karen Sisco and wants to know if she’s ever coming back.

Road Dogs

Ha!

I bet my father-in-law would like to strangle that agent. I noticed while we’ve been talking that you smoke Virginia Slims. That’s what your character Dawn Navarro smoked too.

Mister Paradise

The women in your books are always great. A lot of your dialogue between men and women reminds me of stuff like Tracy and Hepburn.

Road Dogs