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Laura Poitras: Edward made the decision that he would come forward as the source of the information – that was a choice he'd made before we met in Hong Kong. The curiosity and public speculation about him was inevitable, which is why I said that I wanted to meet with him and film. I felt that his personal motivation did matter, and only he could articulate why he made the choice that he did. I’m interested in exploring why someone so young – who has so much to lose – is willing to risk so much.All NSA employees sign a contract pledging an oath to secrecy. What would your response be to people who fault Snowden for going back on his word?
I think that, yes, he crossed the line. But what he exposed were much greater violations of public trust. The government was lying about what it was doing in terms of surveillance. The film shows footage of James Clapper, the director of National Intelligence, specifically stating that the NSA is not collecting data on US citizens.
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They're collecting the metadata of all calls in the United States, but clearly they don’t suspect every US citizen of being complicit in crime. The reason is that they want to be able to sift through the information and go back in time, which is ultimately a violation of our constitution; we have a rule of law, The Fourth Amendment, which states that you need probable cause to search someone’s communications property. So why are they doing it? I think this is really a question to be directed at the US government.Some people have said they don’t mind if their phone calls are monitored if it helps to maintain a high level of security. Perhaps these are people who think, ‘I’m not a criminal, so what have I got to hide?’ But where it becomes more complex is the grey area where you have actions that aren’t necessarily against the law, but are against the government. For example, demonstrations, or protests, which every community should have a right to partake in.Yeah, and authorities now have the ability to crack down on participants harder than ever.
You have local law enforcements that are putting up what are called "empty catchers", which are fake cell phone towers that can collect the phone records of people who gather at a protest. These kinds of things do create a chilling effect in society. Also, I think that if you were to ask the same people who make that argument, "Can I have the password for your email account and the keys to your house, and do you mind if I put a camera in your home and activate the camera in your laptop?" they would say no.
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Well, they are using them, which The Guardian has reported on. There have also been investigations into people’s private Skype communications, also reported by The Guardian. I think these really are intrusions into people’s privacy, and if you present these cases to most people, they agree that the government shouldn't have that kind of access or power.I do think that one concern is related to their perception of the state and whether the state would target them. So as a journalist, for instance, it's very disconcerting that the government can find out who I speak to on the telephone. In the US we also have journalists who are being subpoenaed to find out who their sources are; it’s becoming increasingly hard for journalists to do their jobs and protect sources, which will then affect the ability of the press to do their job, which is to, I believe, hold power accountable.Do you think America's moving towards having less of a free press, then?
No, I wouldn’t say that. I’m able to report. I don’t feel like I’m threatened in terms of anyone trying to stop me. But I do feel that there has been a crackdown and that the US government has been more aggressive against investigative journalism forces than they have ever been. The Obama administration has been targeting the sources of whistleblowers and using the Espionage Act to prosecute them, which is very disturbing – but I don’t think that equals not having a free press.
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I think the environment in the UK is really very problematic. You have The Official Secrets Act, which has made the reporting that The Guardian has done on GCHQ and the NSA very difficult, and you have the use of DA-notices, which seems to have kept other news outlets from reporting on surveillance intelligence. The UK government put a lot of pressure on The Guardian, overseeing the destruction of their computers and hard drives. The paper was threatened with an injunction and were attacked with very serious threats. I think the US is a better environment to work on these issues right now, and I’ve been advised by my lawyers not to travel to the UK at the moment.

The problem with bulk collecting is that the intelligence agencies are literally swimming in data; they’re missing leads. We’ve seen this happen time and time again when something happens, and looking back there's actually a very concrete lead – a warning that was given that wasn't paid attention to. So I think the fact that the governments of the US and the UK are collecting so much information [doesn't mean] that they're actually making us safer. They're not focusing on legitimate leads, but instead are sifting through millions of people’s data.What do you think has changed since the Snowden leaks?
I think there's been a change in consciousness, but there have also been legal challenges, particularly in the US. People are now challenging the collection of metadata as being a violation of the constitution. Some judges have agreed, although there’s one who hasn’t. But now we have documentation it’s working its way through the court system, and that’s ongoing. However, right now the programmes do still exist.
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The precautions I take for encryption and privacy are maybe not the ones that everyone needs to take, but there are some really basic tools that everyone can use that are free. The Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is an organisation in the US, has just posted a surveillance self defence guide, where you can look at the threats that specifically affect you. So it says, "If you’re an activist you should worry about these things; if you’re a journalist you should worry about these thing, and here are tools to use." The tools free and easy to use. There are ways to encrypt cell phone calls, texts, emails and chats, and all these things would take an average person less than a day to figure out.What's next for you?
I’ve been working for a while on American post 9/11 issues. Unfortunately the US government has been engaging in policies that I find contrary to what the fundamental principles of the country are. An example of that is the drone programme. I'll continue to keep working on these kinds of themes because I think, as a journalist and a documentarian, they are important. It’s our role to look closely at what our government is doing.Thanks, Laura.Citizenfour opens in UK cinemas tomorrow, on the 31st of October. For more information visit citizenfourfilm.com.More stories about surveillance:How the Surveillance State Changes Our Everyday LivesThis Is How Londoners React to a Flying Drone in 2014The Town Promising to Shoot Surveillance Drones Out of the Sky