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VICE: Lisa Lee, you were the only woman to rap in Wild Style. What was it like being a part of that?
Lisa Lee: At that time, we didn’t know it was going to be history. We were just young kids and they gave us some money. It was Charlie Ahearn and it was amazing for somebody to be interested in us coming out of the Bronx. We were just out there rapping for fun. We thought it'd just be a movie played in the neighborhood or something and it turned out to be history. It was an amazing thing years later to see what we did as children.And Sha-Rock, you were the first female in a rap group—the Funky 4 + 1.
Sha-Rock: I was the original part of the four. There were three other guys and myself. We are the original Funky Four.As the pioneers, the people who basically invented MCing, do you think there are rules to hip-hop?
Lisa Lee: There are.Sha-Rock: Absolutely. And there should be.Like what?
Lisa Lee: Keep the truth the truth. Don’t try to change history. A lot of people try to do that.What do you mean?
Lisa Lee: There used to be a lot of people who used the word pioneer. A pioneer is someone who originated something. There’s not that many of us who originated stuff. That’s why Sha-Rock speaks on the first thing that she did. The first things that I’ve done are not the same as her, otherwise it wouldn’t even make any sense for me to speak on it. When people say they are the pioneers, as some people do, I ask, What did you begin? What did you start? Sha-Rock was the very first female. No one can take that away from her. She’s going to hold that title way past when she’s gone and I hold the title of the first female and only female of the Universal Zulu Nation. No one can ever take that from me. When people use certain phrases, they should do their history and learn what these words mean in the hip-hop culture.
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Lisa Lee: Well you’re talking about hip-hop, but you have to separate that. Iggy Azalea is rap music. I know the way she raps, I know that it’s marketed with T.I. and you can’t take that away from her. Rapping within hip-hop is for everybody. I don’t know if she celebrates hip-hop culture, but say rap. That’s all I’m saying.Sha-Rock: You can’t take nothing away from her because rap music is made for everybody. You have the right to express yourself. People go all off into oh she’s this, she’s that. The rap culture is different. It’s just one element of hip-hop. People understand that it’s a different type of music that you can’t put that hip-hop culture thing around. Iggy Azealia has the right to express herself. The same for everybody. There’s a level of respect for the hip-hop culture.Does she have that level of respect?
Sha-Rock: It’s not the same thing because she’s rapping a different culture. Rap music is a different culture. You have a right to express yourself. It’s not just for African Americans. It’s for everybody.What role did other races play in the beginning of hip-hop? Like Charlie Ahearn with Wild Style.
Sha-Rock: Well you’re talking about the 80s. Charlie Ahearn saw me on stage at a theater in the Bronx up in the valley. So yeah, Charlie Ahearn did come, but he came in the 80s. He did have a part with Fab Five Freddy and making the first hip-hop movie, but if we’re talking about the inception, it was African Americans and Latinos. That’s the truth.
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Sha-Rock: You should say commercialism of rap music. That’s not representing hip-hop culture. The hip-hop culture is about peace, unity, and having fun rap within that. It’s not disrespecting the next man, not disrespecting the next female, it’s not calling the next female a bitch, a ho, a this, a that. Rapping is an element and people have the right to say what they want to say, but hip-hop includes everything too. When you say commercialism, it is what it is. But rap music within the culture is not just for African Americans, it’s for anybody that decides that they want to bring a message. It’s whatever. If it wasn’t Iggy and it wasn’t L. Boogie, then it was Nicki Minaj.Do you think Nicki Minaj is true to the culture?
Sha-rock: I think that she’s a businesswoman. I think that she has skills. I do like her. I know that she could go raw as an MC. But I also think that there’s a level of respect that we’re supposed to have and to me you have to be responsible for your own actions. What do you think?I would say she’s the best rapper right now.
Sha-Rock: Nicki is good. She’s good, but there’s a lot of underground women that you have not heard of either. People want to just say Nicki Minaj and I’m sick of it personally. You’re not hearing nobody else, really. There’s a lot of women that’s out there that are so good.
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Lisa Lee: You had Trina, you had MC Lyte, you had Sha-Rock. Everyone has a time to shine. There will always be someone coming after that person that we’ll be able to say, you know, this person is good as well. People have their time to shine.For female MCs, does it always have to be one after the next?
Lisa Lee: When I started it, I didn’t have to deal with the craziness of the one-at-a-time because I was just one of the dudes. I didn’t have to show myself off. I could have been eye candy because I was young, but I also had to show my skills. So they never looked at me as a female MC. They looked at me for my skills. We inspired women to also think about being MCs. When I look at the rap culture, I’m looking how you're MCing, how you're engaging the crowd with your lyrical flow, and not just something that’s pre-written.It seems that white rappers like Iggy Azalea or Macklemore don’t need the talent that Nicki Minaj has to go platinum. Does that just reflect the buying power of white people? Or is it the record labels that are perpetuating this?
Sha-Rock: What I would say to people within rap music—if they’re mad at people like Iggy because they’re getting brushed to the side—is that you cannot concentrate on the next man. Hip-hop is supposed to be a culture that is accepting. You should not be out there disrespecting the culture by selling drugs and killing and this and that. Guess what, record companies are putting that out, but they’re pushing other people. Iggy ain’t out there talking about that. She’s not out there disrespecting her race. Iggy’s not being disrespectful as a woman. Macklemore’s not out there disrespecting his race. So are you mad because he wants it more? Then step your game up. Be respectful of the culture and then don’t worry about it. Macklemore, I like his music. He ain’t out there making music about selling drugs and mollys and all that stuff. He’s making music that people want to hear. That people will buy for their kids. I won’t say it’s all positive, but no mother wants their children to hear negative rap music.Follow Lauren on Twitter