The business is run by people who want to say no…The reason my films really get made is because I can get big stars, that's my power… I can easily slide into: "OK, I'm getting old, nobody likes what I'm doing at the moment, the world has moved on, blah blah blah."Terry Gilliam is a perpetual imagination machine spewing out enchanting grotesqueries for the very major studios that are baffled by him. This week The Imaginarium Of Dr Parnassus, another film no one with money wanted him to make, came out on DVD. So I called him for a catch up. (See our long interview with the maestro here.)I heard you had problems getting financing for the film because people didn't get the idea, is that right?
Terry: Yeah, we went out to America and asked for money, $25 million, for Heath Ledger's next movie after The Dark Knight, and we couldn't get any money.What was it they didn't get?
Nothing! They couldn't even get their heads around the idea that the following summer the biggest star on the planet would be Heath Ledger because The Dark Knight was coming out. They couldn't even understand that simple concept, so how could they even begin to understand the film? I mean, I've always had these problems. I go to these meetings and they say, "Oh god, we love everything you've done Terry, but this new one we're not sure about." And it's always been like that, so I don't see why it's ever going to change. The guys in that position, the guardians of the cash, they tend to be conservative people with very little imagination who really just want Time Bandits 2.Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that it's not a high-concept idea that can summed up in a pithy little "boy loses girl" one-liner?
Well, yeah, but that's been the case for a long time. My stuff has never been high concept in that sense: It's too layered, it's got too many things. And what people tend to do, they immediately show it to the marketing people, because if they don't know how to sell it, it doesn't get made. The business is not run by people who get impassioned by an idea and want to make it happen, the business is run by people who want to say no so they can survive in their bureaucratic high-paid jobs as long as they can. It's been like that for a long time and it's gotten worse over the years because it's become more and more bureaucratic. The reason my films really get made is because I can get big stars, that's my power.Talking about the layers and ideas you have, this seems like quite a moralistic film, in terms of being careful what you wish for, and harnessing fears and desires.
Yeah, well, it has to be about something. There are already enough other people doing stories about things turning into other things and blowing up. All my films start from an idea or a thought that I want to consider, and then I try to cram in as much as I can. I like the idea of layering films, and ever since the beginning I find that kids get my films quicker than adults do. Kids are more open to anything that's entertaining them and keeping their attention–adults, as they get older, want things to be more straightforward, or put in tiny boxes to be more easily understood. These are ridiculous generalizations, but I've seen it time and time again. For this film, people have come out after watching it and found it confusing, they didn't know what it was about, and a seven-year-old kid came out and got all of it.For the most part in the film, Parnassus doesn't have an appreciative audience. Was that supposed to be as autobiographical as it sometimes came across?
Yeah, I fall very quickly into self-pity. All the characters in this film are aspects of myself. Parnassus and I can easily slide into: "OK, I'm getting old, nobody likes what I'm doing at the moment, the world has moved on, blah blah blah."Ok. So it's great that you've got Tom Waits as the Devil.
He's a living god as far as I'm concerned. This is a man I'd go anywhere and do anything for. This is somebody who I feel is such a kindred spirit, he's a far better poet than I'll ever be.It looks like he enjoyed it.
Oh yeah. He's great. His voice alone does the job; he could do the phone book and it would be magical. And the great thing is the bowler hat in the film became the hat he wore on his last tour. He said he'd been looking for a different style hat for the tour, and the bowler was the answer.-Interview by ALEX GODFREY
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Terry: Yeah, we went out to America and asked for money, $25 million, for Heath Ledger's next movie after The Dark Knight, and we couldn't get any money.What was it they didn't get?
Nothing! They couldn't even get their heads around the idea that the following summer the biggest star on the planet would be Heath Ledger because The Dark Knight was coming out. They couldn't even understand that simple concept, so how could they even begin to understand the film? I mean, I've always had these problems. I go to these meetings and they say, "Oh god, we love everything you've done Terry, but this new one we're not sure about." And it's always been like that, so I don't see why it's ever going to change. The guys in that position, the guardians of the cash, they tend to be conservative people with very little imagination who really just want Time Bandits 2.Do you think it had anything to do with the fact that it's not a high-concept idea that can summed up in a pithy little "boy loses girl" one-liner?
Well, yeah, but that's been the case for a long time. My stuff has never been high concept in that sense: It's too layered, it's got too many things. And what people tend to do, they immediately show it to the marketing people, because if they don't know how to sell it, it doesn't get made. The business is not run by people who get impassioned by an idea and want to make it happen, the business is run by people who want to say no so they can survive in their bureaucratic high-paid jobs as long as they can. It's been like that for a long time and it's gotten worse over the years because it's become more and more bureaucratic. The reason my films really get made is because I can get big stars, that's my power.
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Yeah, well, it has to be about something. There are already enough other people doing stories about things turning into other things and blowing up. All my films start from an idea or a thought that I want to consider, and then I try to cram in as much as I can. I like the idea of layering films, and ever since the beginning I find that kids get my films quicker than adults do. Kids are more open to anything that's entertaining them and keeping their attention–adults, as they get older, want things to be more straightforward, or put in tiny boxes to be more easily understood. These are ridiculous generalizations, but I've seen it time and time again. For this film, people have come out after watching it and found it confusing, they didn't know what it was about, and a seven-year-old kid came out and got all of it.For the most part in the film, Parnassus doesn't have an appreciative audience. Was that supposed to be as autobiographical as it sometimes came across?
Yeah, I fall very quickly into self-pity. All the characters in this film are aspects of myself. Parnassus and I can easily slide into: "OK, I'm getting old, nobody likes what I'm doing at the moment, the world has moved on, blah blah blah."Ok. So it's great that you've got Tom Waits as the Devil.
He's a living god as far as I'm concerned. This is a man I'd go anywhere and do anything for. This is somebody who I feel is such a kindred spirit, he's a far better poet than I'll ever be.It looks like he enjoyed it.
Oh yeah. He's great. His voice alone does the job; he could do the phone book and it would be magical. And the great thing is the bowler hat in the film became the hat he wore on his last tour. He said he'd been looking for a different style hat for the tour, and the bowler was the answer.-Interview by ALEX GODFREY