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Manon Loizeau: When I first went there, I was a young journalist beginning my career. It was the first conflict I ever covered. There was an incredible brutality to it, yet I developed friendships there. I knew that the place and its people would be in my heart forever, so it felt important to give a continuation to their stories, and to talk about a forgotten population—a forgotten country.
How different was the situation that you found there now?
Well first of all, everything was so much more open before… Reporting itself was much easier. Now, with Putin and the control of the media, it's much harder. Back in the 90s, during the Yeltsin years, it looked like the ex-USSR was well on the way to becoming a democracy. Who would have guessed that it would become what it is now?
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Before I even started, all my friends had warned me that I would never manage because people were too afraid to talk. But actually, it's been quite amazing how many people were willing to speak to me. I think some people have become wary of the regime, and some cracks are—very slowly—beginning to appear. Several people even thanked me for doing what I was doing—coming all the way from France to understand their situation and give them a voice. They're not used to getting that sort of attention.During the shoot however, me and my team had to be very careful as you get easily spotted: Western media are simply non-existent there. They are very careful as to who is filming especially during official parades, such as Kadyrov and Putin's birthdays. And of course we didn't want to put any of our interviewees in danger, so we had to be very discreet. We always had to find new tricks; but I know we were followed several times.
There is an evident eradication of the past imposed by the regime. This is why in the film I worked with the aesthetics of erasure, of oblivion. Kadyrov is progressively crushing whatever remains of the Chechen identity. One of the best examples is the ban put in place by Kadyrov last year on the February 23 celebrations, which mark the remembrance of the 1944 deportation of Chechens by Stalin. It was a day of national union—a union that Kadyrov is obviously trying to break to gain ever more power and authority.
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The aim is to get ever closer to Russia, to crush any instinct of resistance or rebellion, to suppress any feeling of identity. The only identities that can exist are his and Putin's. It really is reminiscent of the Soviet terror in lots of ways. The history of Chechnya is being rewritten—it starts now, with them. This comes as the same time as actual Russian history books are being rewritten to give a greater part to Soviet history and to Stalin.In the film, you argue that people are more scared now than they were during the war. Why is that?
This is something I understood when I was talking to people. The major difference is that, before, people were only afraid of one enemy: Russia. Now, they know that they can also be killed by their own family because the atmosphere of terror that Kadyrov has imposed has in fact provoked betrayals within families themselves—if you know it will save you, you may be ready to denounce a member of your own family. In that sense, he has very much succeeded in dividing the population. Solidarity no longer exists.
In a sense, yes. Because of what these people have been through, because of the war, it seems that they have accepted a sort of collective schizophrenia where they are forced to forget about the past. In the old days, it was "svoboda ili smert"—"freedom or death." Times have changed. Whatever Kadyrov says is the law. People have no other choice but to accept it. I've had people telling me that they felt safer during war time.
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Yes—I wanted this to be a "human" film, a film focusing on the people and on how they really live and behind the scenery set up by Kadyrov. Getting all these testimonies was absolutely unexpected though—I'm glad that so many were willing to speak to me. Showing images of Kadyrov during official parades was enough, as it portrayed him well enough as "the Chechen leader." There was no need to interview him.We know that back in 2007, Vladimir Putin appointed Kadyrov as acting president of Chechnya after dismissing Alu Alkhanov and that, to this day, they remain strong allies. Would you say that Kadyrov is still acting directly under Putin's influence?
It's hard to assess, but what can be said for sure is that he's doing everything he can in order to appear as "Russia's best pupil." And he's quite successful so far: he's managed to create a sort of "mini-dictatorship" in the region, and he is keeping order in it. So in that sense, he is still very useful to Putin yes.
I think there aren't many hopes that things will change soon unfortunately, unless Moscow suddenly makes the decision to replace Kadyrov with someone else. By inflicting terror, organizing surprise raids, and killing or arresting people randomly, the risk is that he is slowly radicalizing the population and encouraging terrorism.
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In a sense, I think the seeds of what occurred in Ukraine were planted in Chechnya, and there is obviously a similarity in the scenario. One shouldn't forget that the war in Chechnya is also to a large extent what helped Putin seize power in Russia… But it's obviously hard to predict what will become of that region.Thanks, Manon.You can watch Manon's documentary here.Follow Alice Tchernookova on Twitter.