Bob Nickas

Interview by Jesse Pearson, Portraits by Slava Mogutin

index index Live Free or Die: Collected Writings 1985-1999, Collection Diary Theft Is Vision Painting Abstraction Catalogue of the Exhibition Bob Nickas: Vice: And there’s new text from you for each one?
What was it like going through your past like this?
Well, geez, how many feuds and resentments had you been involved in?
“My People Were Fair and Had Cum in Their Hair (but Now They’re Content to Spray Stars From Your Boughs),” 2003. I guess the art world is pretty contentious.
How do you fit into all of that?
By what measure?
No. I came to a small one-bedroom apartment with lots of books, magazines, and records in it. So what could you have done, that you didn’t, to end up in an art-filled loft?
What does that mean, though?
And that’s not where the money and fame are.
You must get pieces from some of the young artists you work with.
OK.
“Melvins,” 2003. “From the Observatory,” 2002. “Hunger for Words,” 1984. I can vouch for the fact that you’ve been like this at least since I met you 11 years ago.
Why?
If I’ve worked with a photographer for a while and then they’re suddenly telling me to talk to their agent, I’m done with them.
They get insulated by handlers.
What do you mean by “real” shows?
Right.
A point?
Yeah.
What are they doing? Just selling works to heirs in Italy and France?
“The Art of the Real,” 1987. Let’s get back to the book of your shows for a bit.
King Kong Meets the Gem of Egypt Right. I like that it went back to that generation.
Yeah.
Then let’s talk about the losers.
Blue Idiot. So people should just make the original price 20 percent higher to account for that.
And Parrino was great.
Ha!
After Steven Parrino died, I’m assuming?
“Every Revolution Is a Roll of the Dice,” 2007. Of course this brings up the old chestnut—artists being worth more dead than alive.
That’s a possibility, given his history.
My favorite work by de Kooning is the stuff he did at the end. Those are some of my favorite paintings by anyone.
So did it actually become, like, de rigueur or at least hip to think that later de Kooning was worthwhile?
hip How often have you found yourself cajoling collectors to buy something because you really believed in it?
How much do collectors go with what they’re told, and how many collectors really have an eye?
That’s the difference that makes it more of an investment market than a passion. Right?
Right.
“Pieces-Meubles,” 1995. Don’t they get to have that privilege because they’re the ones supplying the money?
Just playing devil’s advocate over here…
Artforum That’s an excellent attitude.
Right, there was that long article about them in the New Yorker.
The money they give to these institutions is both a donation and hush money at the same time.
I guess that business has the potential to turn everything creative sour and awkward.
How can you hate business and then want to be that way?
So you never seriously considered opening a gallery?
“Red,” 1986. All this considered, why did you even choose to enter the art world and to make it your career?
For instance?
Why?
Yeah, you don’t want to know.
Where the oligarchs go to buy their art.
Why?
Yeah, why?
But nobody’s going to poison you.
Art seems to get flipped a lot today, between collectors and auction houses.
Because they’re bored?
Rich people buy art on a whim.
“Hex Enduction Hour by the Fall,” 2000. Again with the devil’s advocate here, but tell me, why is that bad?
Theodor Adorno and Max Horkheimer said this a thousand years ago.
Adorno also talked about the false perception of choices that people think they have in terms of culture. You know, this movie versus that movie, when it’s really all the same. It wasn’t so much about business.
You could just say in retrospect, but go ahead.
Of course. Let’s go into why you’re done with the New York art world.
That was the whole initial impetus for doing an interview for this issue!
Yeah.
Tell me…
It’s going in. Now tell me what you said in your talk.
Whom I’ve interviewed for this issue also.
Sure, we’ve got her naked in the issue, shot by Richard Kern.
How can I describe the look that you just gave me?
Recording stops, discussion continues for a few minutes Can we go back on the record now?
It doesn’t matter. She’d probably think it’s funny.
I don’t want shit talk for the sake of shit talk, but what you’re saying is important. And I don’t care if it’s in the same issue as Marina. We don’t want some monolithic one-opinion issue.
In Search of the Miraculous OK, that’s going in.
Do you think you’re being too much of a purist?
One thing that’s been said is that there was an exclusivity to this stuff before, because a 21-year-old art student now couldn’t have been at a performance in 1974 in Europe. But they can see the re-creation today. Do you find any value in that?
Is there an artist who’s used marketing tactics in their art in a way that’s interesting to you?
Elaborate on why you’re done with the New York art world. This is something you’ve said to me a bunch of times in the last six months, and I want to hear it explained in digestible terms.
Just for the sake of clarity, we’re talking about the Greater New York show at PS 1 that you were involved with in…
And that was when you were working at PS 1?
It’s certainly a brave thing to do today.
That’s funny coming from her.
Will you be doing shows elsewhere?
“Every Revolution Is a Roll of the Dice,” 2007. “Red,” 1986. “The Art of the Real,” 1987. OK, so the White Columns Annual that you’re working on is going to be your last show in New York. When does it open?
Are you the sole curator of the White Columns show?
Is it Jerry Saltz?
On a nuts-and-bolts level, what’s the process like for working on the White Columns show?
You don’t have to tell me the amount, of course, but how and when do you get paid for something like this? Do you get a couple payments over time, or do you get just a lump sum at the start?
What if they’re not going to pay you?